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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 10, 2014 12:29:19 GMT
So as facebookers know I had a fall off Isis yesterday, my left calf is so sore I can't put weight on it, my back, butt, shoulders and pelvis are sore, bruised and gravel burned! Isis has an issue with something I do with my other 2 no problem, normally he just jumps a little bit but yesterday he had a big freak out, tell me if you can tell what freaked him out?!
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Post by horselover4life on Jul 10, 2014 13:08:54 GMT
I think he suddenly "saw" the milk crate... and just plain freaked! It was something didn't belong there and he took fight then flight on you.
That was NASTY...
I can only imagine how sore you are... he didn't clip you in the face as he blew up then rolled down to his buck and evade? I don't know of anyone honestly who would not of been gone with that quickness and sharpness of buck, pitch & roll.
Hell, I fell/slipped off on the weekend too just because the horse side-stepped and my slippery pants went slip-sliding away off the saddle...what you just encountered... I would probably be still getting off the ground or out of the tree where I landed..thud, thud, thud.
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 10, 2014 13:15:09 GMT
I think he suddenly "saw" the milk crate... and just plain freaked! It was something didn't belong there and he took fight then flight on you.
That was NASTY... ???
I can only imagine how sore you are... he didn't clip you in the face as he blew up then rolled down to his buck and evade? I don't know of anyone honestly who would not of been gone with that quickness and sharpness of buck, pitch & roll.
Hell, I fell/slipped off on the weekend too just because the horse side-stepped and my slippery pants went slip-sliding away off the saddle...what you just encountered... I would probably be still getting off the ground or out of the tree where I landed..thud, thud, thud. You need those sticky jodphurs! ......that's what I hated about the old Vic Bennett, the seat was so slick. But nope, that's not what spooked him, it's something I did, what bugs me is when he was going to the second trainer I specifically told her when I was lunging him he freaked and bolted when this happened and that's why I wouldn't get on him, obviously she didn't fix it or he will never be fixed of it :( Can you see what I did?!
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Jul 10, 2014 14:57:38 GMT
Well I can't see it. Looks like you were riding along nicely with loose contact and he decided to freak out. That was a pretty nasty fall though.
I usually end up falling on my shoulders when I hit the ground. Don't tell Mister but it's been quite a while since I fell. I almost feel like I am due to fall any day now...
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Terry
Junior Member
Central Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,466
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Post by Terry on Jul 10, 2014 16:03:08 GMT
I couldn't see what you did either. It looked to me like he just finally spotted the crate sitting there and spooked at the crate.
May I ask what it is that you did that he doesn't like, because I sure couldn't see anything.
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 10, 2014 16:07:58 GMT
Well I can't see it. Looks like you were riding along nicely with loose contact and he decided to freak out. That was a pretty nasty fall though. I usually end up falling on my shoulders when I hit the ground. Don't tell Mister but it's been quite a while since I fell. I almost feel like I am due to fall any day now... Yes me too, I've been overdue a fall so I'm kinda glad in a way I did it and survived lol!
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 10, 2014 16:08:33 GMT
I couldn't see what you did either. It looked to me like he just finally spotted the crate sitting there and spooked at the crate.
May I ask what it is that you did that he doesn't like, because I sure couldn't see anything.
Ill give you all a clue, watch my feet :)
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Jul 10, 2014 16:15:54 GMT
AH, you slipped your feet out of the stirrups. Do you wear spurs? It seems like Isis is afraid you are going to jab him in the sides. did the people before you wear spurs? Could have been that they jab him and by you moving your feet like that, he thinks he is going to get jabbed. I would just stand somewhere quietly and practice slipping your feet in and out of the stirrups very easily for him to get get used to it.
I drop my stirrups all the time riding Mister as my knees start to ache after a while. I would hate for him to react like that everytime I did so!.
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 10, 2014 16:26:18 GMT
AH, you slipped your feet out of the stirrups. Do you wear spurs? It seems like Isis is afraid you are going to jab him in the sides. did the people before you wear spurs? Could have been that they jab him and by you moving your feet like that, he thinks he is going to get jabbed. I would just stand somewhere quietly and practice slipping your feet in and out of the stirrups very easily for him to get get used to it. I drop my stirrups all the time riding Mister as my knees start to ache after a while. I would hate for him to react like that everytime I did so!. Correct! No spurs, he's just awful, he's ok if he's stood still for me to take them out BUT if he's moving he jumps, yesterday was the worst he's ever been, if the stirrup is up on the saddle and it falls down he bolts, happened many times, BUT I can bang them against his sides just standing, EVEN when I mount, if I don't get my other foot in the stirrup fast he reacts badly, I have to keep him still get it in then move, if I were to start walking and do it then he would freak! This is a very dangerous thing, like you I get sore so I kick them out to stretch but I can't do it on him, even if I stretch them out when my feet are in the stirrups he gets all spooky, I have no idea how to fix this, he has had so much so called desensitization I mean how much can you do, really he needs rode and just to keep doing it but now after this I'm not so confident, I'm going to send the last trainer the clip see what she thinks:)
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Jul 10, 2014 16:36:40 GMT
You don't have access to a round pen do you? Could you lunge him with the stirrups down and flopping around to desensitize him? Otherwise, I think you are right that it's just something that is going to need to get worked out in the saddle.
What about if you are riding him and asking him to disengage his hind end (like a turn on the forehand) and drop one or both while he is having to think of something else? Do you think that would work or maybe freak him out more? I will keep thinking...
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 10, 2014 17:01:56 GMT
You don't have access to a round pen do you? Could you lunge him with the stirrups down and flopping around to desensitize him? Otherwise, I think you are right that it's just something that is going to need to get worked out in the saddle. What about if you are riding him and asking him to disengage his hind end (like a turn on the forehand) and drop one or both while he is having to think of something else? Do you think that would work or maybe freak him out more? I will keep thinking... No I don't, I don't even have anywhere decent to lunge but regardless he's weird, 8 times out of 10 he won't react or react badly but then all of a sudden BOOM like yesterday, I was stupid for not having my reins gathered but I figured relaxed would give relaxed! If he moves off, yes sometimes not often he does when I get on and I don't have my other stirrup yet I turn him tight till I get it but it's not pretty, he's twitchy, ready to go, you get the picture! He he is like no horse I've ever seen, I can lunge him with balloons bouncing all over him, no reaction, cripes someone came to see me once and I was doing the bag on a stick thing and he was just standing there and they said their horse would freak! i cannot even drop the stirrups when I'm saddling him! it just sets him up bad for the day! it's so frustrating! I'm seriously considering finding an English trainer to work with him in the future(too much going on right now), he's even been lunged with a line through the stirrups banging them up and down, I mean what more can you do?! Aside from the fall he was really good, quite a few cars passed and he didn't react badly atall:) i did did have to call the cops as he bolted and took off, cops, myself and 2 passers by in cars out looking and finally I saw him from along the road standing in the driveway close to the road, took me forever to hobble up there, he just stood, his rein was broken and he'd overreached a little, broke his back hoof toe off but aside from that was ok :)
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Post by horselover4life on Jul 10, 2014 18:03:22 GMT
He sounds like someone spurred the heck out of him when they were breaking him, rough cowboy style. Now when there is contact in that exact spot where he was spurred his mind reverts and he blindly panics...
The bouncing of the stirrups won't bother him till they touch "the spot" then all hell is on a break-out as you know..
I know of no way to fix this, except someone able to ride it out, over and over again so he realizes that touching that spot isn't going to hurt him anymore. That would surely take me out and off the saddle... I couldn't do it nor even attempt it.
There is a group here in Florida that excel at this stuff with horses.... they combine Cowboy Church and horse handling. Take on some really rough horses and turn them into sweethearts in front of you... Getting your boy here to this state though...not so easy or affordable.
Maybe there is a group by you that does this kind of work? I've seen some pretty incredible results come from these people....
here is the web address for the guys here... www.cowboyupministry.com
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 10, 2014 19:21:37 GMT
He sounds like someone spurred the heck out of him when they were breaking him, rough cowboy style. Now when there is contact in that exact spot where he was spurred his mind reverts and he blindly panics...
The bouncing of the stirrups won't bother him till they touch "the spot" then all hell is on a break-out as you know..
I know of no way to fix this, except someone able to ride it out, over and over again so he realizes that touching that spot isn't going to hurt him anymore. That would surely take me out and off the saddle... I couldn't do it nor even attempt it.
There is a group here in Florida that excel at this stuff with horses.... they combine Cowboy Church and horse handling. Take on some really rough horses and turn them into sweethearts in front of you... Getting your boy here to this state though...not so easy or affordable.
Maybe there is a group by you that does this kind of work? I've seen some pretty incredible results come from these people....
here is the web address for the guys here... www.cowboyupministry.com
Yes, unfortunately I don't know what happened at the first trainers so could be anything, it was when he came back and after all his injuries healed(6 months plus)and I started lunging him once I finally managed to get a saddle on him that I noticed him having this weird reaction, once time I was leaning over him and he had been so good for weeks all I did different was touch the stirrup on the other side and he freaked, reared and took off bucking. i know, the bummer is its easy to come off as you have no stirrups lol,???so hard to train out. I don't know of anyone doing that kind of thing round here, unfortunately the trainer everyone recommends for problems is the one he went to first and that did not go well! Theres a couple trainers withing hacking distance of me now, one Ive met and like but I just don't think he will be suited to Isis, the other is a real pricey dressage trainer who deals with problems too, my farriers boarding there and going to do some lessons with her, when she's here again I might ask her what she thinks as she knows Isis good and by then hopefuly will have some idea of the trainers suitability, I'm not leaving him there though, I'll just take him for his session and back again, at least that way you know they are actually doing something with them!
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Post by horselady on Jul 10, 2014 20:13:33 GMT
I can not get it to open . so can not comment. can you send to e-mail instead. ?
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Post by horselover4life on Jul 10, 2014 20:43:07 GMT
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 10, 2014 21:38:41 GMT
K so the advice from trainer I don't really get.... Flag him out and kick him Till he quits dreaming out - take the scary thing and thump him with it Till he realizes it's not scary just annoyin ? ....he's bluffing you, making you think he's scared but he's not, he's just being a dick. I have no idea what flag him out means! I'm not so sure on the bluffing, he was super relaxed and knew he was home so why would he do that knowing he was about to finish, maybe I'm reading too much into it. Anyway for the next few rides I'll play it safe!
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 10, 2014 21:40:08 GMT
I can not get it to open . so can not comment. can you send to e-mail instead. ? Did it work yet? not sure why it would for others but not you, have those horses been scratching on your dish again!
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Post by horselover4life on Jul 10, 2014 22:08:00 GMT
The flagging part I intellectually understand, how to put it to practicality...
So,...basically you are going to pester the living crap out of him in and with that part of the body till he becomes numb to it...think dead-sided to touch in that area. Now, how to achieve that will take some thinking on my part.
IDK if you ran him with a saddle flapping and smacking him in his sides would work... like leaving a saddle on him continually so he brushed against things, rubs and moves that saddle, that fender & stirrup till he grows so accustomed to it it touching him it is no big deal.... he will wear himself out running from it...he only fights himself not you nor does he hurt you. Now...you have a junk and I mean a throw-away saddle? Safe tree but otherwise useless? I would not do this with any good tack as it is going to take a beating from being left on the horse for some time....
My other thought is literally making flags** and tie them off to the stirrups...he runs from his own movement...again though you need a saddle you can afford to toss away. If in doubt, it would be worth the $$ to have the trainer come and do this "training" exercise so you could then copy it...
**I think in this case it is something akin to your legs and boots banging against his sides in the approximate area of his sides...again, he only works and hurts himself with his stupidity...he will fight himself only for so long and then give in to it.
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 10, 2014 22:15:01 GMT
The flagging part I intellectually understand, how to put it to practicality... So,...basically you are going to pester the living crap out of him in and with that part of the body till he becomes numb to it...think dead-sided to touch in that area. Now, how to achieve that will take some thinking on my part. IDK if you ran him with a saddle flapping and smacking him in his sides would work... like leaving a saddle on him continually so he brushed against things, rubs and moves that saddle, that fender & stirrup till he grows so accustomed to it it touching him it is no big deal.... he will wear himself out running from it...he only fights himself not you nor does he hurt you. Now...you have a junk and I mean a throw-away saddle? Safe tree but otherwise useless? I would not do this with any good tack as it is going to take a beating from being left on the horse for some time.... My other thought is literally making flags** and tie them off to the stirrups...he runs from his own movement...again though you need a saddle you can afford to toss away. If in doubt, it would be worth the $$ to have the trainer come and do this "training" exercise so you could then copy it... **I think in this case it is something akin to your legs and boots banging against his sides in the approximate area of his sides...again, he only works and hurts himself with his stupidity...he will fight himself only for so long and then give in to it. You know I do have an old saddle that I can't give away lol!....but I think it's too narrow for him, I'll see how bad it is, maybe I could get an old pair of boots and strap them to it in front of the stirrups, get him used to 2 things on either side. im a bit of a worry wort though, I could leave him in the paddock with it on, there's bushes and trees, field shelter, mind u he seemed ok yesterday, I was worried the saddle would get wrecked but not even a mark on it, no idea where he ran to, his tail was full off dead branches though! thanks for the ideas:)
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Post by horselady on Jul 11, 2014 1:10:27 GMT
I did manage to see it and i played it about a dozen times. it looks to me like he was slapped across the side of his head just before he bolted, i know you did not do anything. your hands were quiet and i could not see your feet. i wonder if the sun could have been glinting off the camera. as soon as his feet hit the shadow /sun he spun around. if you think the saddle and your feet caused that from bumping his side than the best thing is to desensitize him . as you stated he has the spur marks from a trainer and i suppose he might never be able to get used to the bumping of feet. it is something you need to be aware of, and hopefully as he gets older he will get used to it. i wonder if you can put something longer on his sides to help cushion the feel of your feet. ?
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