hugs
Junior Member
Posts: 2,647
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Post by hugs on Jul 11, 2014 3:08:06 GMT
Here's my two cents... I can see how a person would think its the stirrup or your foot hitting him but if its inconsistent, than I'd be looking at what only happens sometimes when you slip off your stirrup? And it could be what happens RIGHT BEFORE you slip out of the stirrup. And to find out, I'd saddle up a log and recreate what your posture is and all of that as you first think of taking your foot out of the stirrup right through to what happens AFTER your foot is out of the stirrup. It might not be the stirrup at all!
I also didn't really see a scared horse. I mean,not all spooking behavior is from fear. Now maybe I'm all wet about that but I'm thinking of how deer behave. I mean if their tail is held high in the air when they take off, they're scared, that's their alarm posture, you know? But sometimes they simply run off without the tail high, they're still leaving but it doesn't mean that they're startled, they're simply, forgive the pun, high tailing it out of there. So what I'm getting at, is maybe trying to desensitize him to not be afraid is not effective but the thing to do is to train him to do something other than turn on a dime and run off like a wild man when that stimulus occurs. He can feel whatever he wants but his training tells him that it isn't okay to turn and run off like that.
I gotta say though, I felt so bad for you when you turned around and then knelt down, I could tell you were a real hurtin' unit. But you did get up right way, that was really something.
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 11, 2014 12:36:17 GMT
I did manage to see it and i played it about a dozen times. it looks to me like he was slapped across the side of his head just before he bolted, i know you did not do anything. your hands were quiet and i could not see your feet. i wonder if the sun could have been glinting off the camera. as soon as his feet hit the shadow /sun he spun around. if you think the saddle and your feet caused that from bumping his side than the best thing is to desensitize him . as you stated he has the spur marks from a trainer and i suppose he might never be able to get used to the bumping of feet. it is something you need to be aware of, and hopefully as he gets older he will get used to it. i wonder if you can put something longer on his sides to help cushion the feel of your feet. ? HL the camera was under an awning and no glint, I know it's when I take my feet out, even when standing still if I take one out he jumps to the side a little and starts twitching his head nervously, what was wrong that day was at he was walking on quite nice so when I took them out I guess the stirrups swung against him just enough to startle him, he's very lazy off the leg which is kinda ironic, I think for a while I will just wait till he's standing still, even when riding him if I just stretch my legs out in front a bit while in the stirrups he balks, so annoying, if I lose a stirrup for any reason I guess I'm off:(
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Jul 11, 2014 12:46:33 GMT
Do you think you could get a whip or a stick (with maybe a "flag" on it) and while your feet are in the stirrups, bump him with it just behind your foot? That way you would have your stirrups if he acts crazy and would be more likely to stay on.
I'm afraid that he will quickly learn that he can unseat you and may start acting up more and more.
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 11, 2014 12:48:32 GMT
Here's my two cents... I can see how a person would think its the stirrup or your foot hitting him but if its inconsistent, than I'd be looking at what only happens sometimes when you slip off your stirrup? And it could be what happens RIGHT BEFORE you slip out of the stirrup. And to find out, I'd saddle up a log and recreate what your posture is and all of that as you first think of taking your foot out of the stirrup right through to what happens AFTER your foot is out of the stirrup. It might not be the stirrup at all! I also didn't really see a scared horse. I mean,not all spooking behavior is from fear. Now maybe I'm all wet about that but I'm thinking of how deer behave. I mean if their tail is held high in the air when they take off, they're scared, that's their alarm posture, you know? But sometimes they simply run off without the tail high, they're still leaving but it doesn't mean that they're startled, they're simply, forgive the pun, high tailing it out of there. So what I'm getting at, is maybe trying to desensitize him to not be afraid is not effective but the thing to do is to train him to do something other than turn on a dime and run off like a wild man when that stimulus occurs. He can feel whatever he wants but his training tells him that it isn't okay to turn and run off like that. I gotta say though, I felt so bad for you when you turned around and then knelt down, I could tell you were a real hurtin' unit. But you did get up right way, that was really something. Yes hugs, correct, he is not scared, even the trainer said he's not scared when I spoke to her yesterday, what is annoying with him is he's not consistent, desensitizing does nothing for him, 9 times you will get no reaction then boom you will, but you are right, he needs taught not to bolt or panic. The trainer who broke Ira told me she teaches all colts a safety blanket, if they get unsure or stressed they circle tight disengaging their back end and I do this with Ira and he switches off and listens again, I think I'll try doing this with Isis, he does have a habit of setting his jaw so I'm going to switch bits for sure as the happy mouth has no effect when I need to bump him, then I'll work on circling him tight so he's thinking about that then work up to slipping a foot out the stirrup and keep circling till he's calm, work up to two, won't be till next week though as I'm swollen and sore lol! I was winded when I jumped up so had to crouch down for a minute lol!....I was aware he'd bolted to the road but couldn't breathe so thought stuff it he will have to wait, still don't know where he went but he was so calm when I found him at the bottom of driveway little bugger!"........never had a horse run away from me when I've fallen off, they all just usually stop and look at me, he is so different from any horse I've known, getting too old for this lol!
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 11, 2014 12:54:02 GMT
Can you see how swollen my leg is still?! I can't even see on the video how I hurt it! [/URL
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 11, 2014 12:56:51 GMT
Do you think you could get a whip or a stick (with maybe a "flag" on it) and while your feet are in the stirrups, bump him with it just behind your foot? That way you would have your stirrups if he acts crazy and would be more likely to stay on. I'm afraid that he will quickly learn that he can unseat you and may start acting up more and more. Can I be honest with you, I'd be terrified to ride him with a whip! Even if I slap him with my hand he shoots forward like a ninja! Hes going to start getting ridden hard, I've been taking it easy on him a bit as I've been working on getting him used to traffic which he is, next time I ride I'm going to ride him in the big field which is fenced and I'm going to just work work work him till he's dripping, I think he needs a ton of wet blankets as they say;)
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redzip
Junior Member
Posts: 1,701
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Post by redzip on Jul 11, 2014 13:19:05 GMT
If you know he is apt to pull that 'move', you need to be prepared with a 'counter move'. Do you practice 'one rein stops' with him?? I think if you kept more contact with his face (just in case, as preparation), and kept your seat, and then rode, steered him right back around to face his fear, he might actually learn to 'spook in place'. As opposed to that bolt and run BS. Glad you were not injured seriously,., DANG HORSES!
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 11, 2014 18:31:05 GMT
If you know he is apt to pull that 'move', you need to be prepared with a 'counter move'. Do you practice 'one rein stops' with him?? I think if you kept more contact with his face (just in case, as preparation), and kept your seat, and then rode, steered him right back around to face his fear, he might actually learn to 'spook in place'. As opposed to that bolt and run BS. Glad you were not injured seriously,., DANG HORSES! 467029 He never usually reacts that badly so yes I was expecting it but nothing like that, I was so mad that I had no reins ugh!....usually he just farts around a bit, so I learned a lesson!
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 11, 2014 18:42:37 GMT
I'd been pm ing smile about it, she had some good advice and has had 2 very similar accidents both on green horses, she says mostly it's just time and repetition and yes always being ready for the worst to happen!
She suggested I pony him off Dax with an old saddle on him loaded with anything that will hank on trees, make noise and ride him in the field through the brush and trees, to do this lots, I think I can manage that!
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Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
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Post by Lipizzan on Jul 11, 2014 19:17:53 GMT
Auch. You have been lucky. Now you know you can't relax yet with him. Sit firm in the saddle. He trow you like a rugdoll. Hope you get on him soon as possible again . Now is the time to start even more working with him. When I get trown like that of I am not hurt I get back on right away and go the same way, so the horse don't think he won.
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 11, 2014 19:24:10 GMT
Here's a clip from just before he went to the second trainer, I'd got him used to saddling again, he was good with me draped over him, bouncing up and down both sides, all I did different was lift the stirrup a little more than usual when I leaned over lol!......I'm a bit of a screamer! youtu.be/ANuOUCwhi0QSmilie says he's a dreamer, he's all relaxed and da de da which you can see in both clips then something tiny startles him and he explodes!
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 11, 2014 19:25:57 GMT
Auch. You have been lucky. Now you know you can't relax yet with him. Sit firm in the saddle. He trow you like a rugdoll. Hope you get on him soon as possible again . Now is the time to start even more working with him. When I get trown like that of I am not hurt I get back on right away and go the same way, so the horse don't think he won. Unfortunately once I found him his reins were snapped right close to the bit so I couldn't get on:( Hes in big trouble now, he pushed the wrong buttons, lol!
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Jul 11, 2014 19:57:08 GMT
Honestly in that video, I don't think it was the stirrup that set him off. You moved your foot away and then back then there was about a second or two before he reacted. If he was reacting to the stirrup, I don't think there would have been that delay. Just what I saw.
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 11, 2014 21:19:30 GMT
Honestly in that video, I don't think it was the stirrup that set him off. You moved your foot away and then back then there was about a second or two before he reacted. If he was reacting to the stirrup, I don't think there would have been that delay. Just what I saw. No, I meant the stirrup on the side I leaned over to, I had been moving it and that time I moved it a little further so you can't see what I was doing, I was actually going to get on him that day he'd been so good for the week, every day I was managing to get on from both sides, instead I sent him to the second trainer, decided Id had enough!
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Jul 11, 2014 23:17:46 GMT
Ah, I see.
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Post by horselover4life on Jul 12, 2014 9:14:53 GMT
No comment...I hurt just watching that video...
My only words of pleading... PLEASE, Please always wear a crash helmet with this guy... I don't know if you are ever going to get him "dead broke" trusting quiet...he is so reactive and very quick footed.
I do agree time to take off the nicey nice gloves and work his butt, kindly but hard. Making him fully respect you and you stop pandering to his whims... YOU are lead mare and he never forgets it again... He pushed your buttons, now you will push his, again and again and again... You just got tough....
I looked at your picture of post "rapid dismount"... you are swollen from mid-thigh to toes... Take it easy and be careful...those injuries, especially soft tissue take more time than you realize to heal. Till they do you are at a disadvantage strength wise to what you were before the "rapid dismount" as they {soft tissues} are damaged. ...gentle ones!! You must ache...
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 12, 2014 12:35:32 GMT
Don't worry, I always wear a helmet:)
I feel much better, leg swelling fine down a little but I can put more weight on it, shoulders and back still sore but I'm not stooping as much now, lucky as the kennels are full this weekend and I'm alone:-)
I'll ride Dax the next time, just to help see how ready I am muscular wise, I really need to get on Ira, he's been left standing for almost a year, I will ride Isis in the field next time as I want to do hills with him, make him work and get used to my shifting body then at least if something happens the grounds softer and it's all fenced.
He was in our garden somewhere, I found horse poop in there last night so he had have bolted to the back of the house, I wouldn't see him when I walked past as it's treed, I was shouting his name but obviously he ignored me, he must have later wandered to the road and bottom driveway, it's not fenced unfortunately.
Looking forward to getting on him again, I have a few things to work on, he's getting easily better with traffic, I'm sure the break off roads wont make any difference.
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Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
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Post by Lipizzan on Jul 12, 2014 20:20:50 GMT
That's good you are being optimistic and are wanting to go ride as soon as possible. Better luck other time I hope :-)
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Post by horselady on Jul 13, 2014 0:29:57 GMT
He does love to buck and run out to the right doesn't he? it is so hard to get a horse to stop that learned behavior. IF he were mine i would set up a round pen somewhere. and make him buck until he decided to stop and decide it was NO FUN since he loves to buck and run to the right. you need to keep that left rein pulled shorter so his head and nose is not looking to the right. make sure the saddle does not rock and perhaps the stirrups that you used in the last clip cut into his side. he is so reactive. . i would lunge him with an older cheapo saddle on and those stirrups banging and clanging on his side and do it every day until one day he is not bucking. use just a halter and lunge line and make him buck!!!!! he needs to realize that it is not fun and you are not going to let him get way with his mode. I would use a tie down with a snaffle bit for out on the trail or to ride in the round pen do not use the tie down or martingale (not for his bucking mode , he will harm himself with the bit in his mouth and the tie down pulling on the nose band.
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Post by lorddaxter on Jul 14, 2014 17:08:14 GMT
He does love to buck and run out to the right doesn't he? it is so hard to get a horse to stop that learned behavior. IF he were mine i would set up a round pen somewhere. and make him buck until he decided to stop and decide it was NO FUN since he loves to buck and run to the right. you need to keep that left rein pulled shorter so his head and nose is not looking to the right. make sure the saddle does not rock and perhaps the stirrups that you used in the last clip cut into his side. he is so reactive. . i would lunge him with an older cheapo saddle on and those stirrups banging and clanging on his side and do it every day until one day he is not bucking. use just a halter and lunge line and make him buck!!!!! he needs to realize that it is not fun and you are not going to let him get way with his mode. I would use a tie down with a snaffle bit for out on the trail or to ride in the round pen do not use the tie down or martingale (not for his bucking mode , he will harm himself with the bit in his mouth and the tie down pulling on the nose band. HL what's frustrating is he isn't consistent, I can't use a tie down on him, the trainer who screwed him used one and he freaks out if he feels contained atall, this horse is psycho at times lol! ....he is very very very frustrating......I am very annoyed at myself for not catching this, I knew he would react but I hoped if I was relaxed about it he would be too! i will be ready next time, I do feel it is an issue I can only solve from his back, Ill be riding him his week a few times if his shoes stay on as farrier can't come till Sunday, I'm going to have easy ride the first time just to get both our confidence up again then I'll do some training in the field, softer landing, not that I plan to fall off!
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