nhg
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Post by nhg on Aug 27, 2014 17:14:57 GMT
My friend has a paint gelding that was well trained when she got him over a year ago and she's had him in training most of the time since then but not all the time. Probably 9 or 10 months out of the 15 months she's had him. I saw him when she first got him but hadn't seen him since because of where he's been and my illness. I finally saw him again the other day.
Here's the story. The last trainer had him until about a month and a half ago. She had his feet trimmed before he was moved and my friend says the farrier trimmed him way too short and the farrier where he is now was horrified. So he was lame and wasn't ridden until two weeks ago. Now she has another trainer riding him regularly and he's not lame but he trips, particularly at the lope so she hardly lopes him. What I saw the other day is that he doesn't just trip, he almost goes right down. The footing in their arena isn't deep at all so that can't be the issue. The trainer is saying it's the bad trim and he'll need a few trims to get back to normal. His feet need attention and I can see that the fronts must have been short because they're probably about the right length now after 6 weeks but the sides are flaring a bit and even starting to chip off. The angles are pretty decent, I've certainly seen worse. To me they're not so bad that it should cause him to trip so badly. He's not just stumbling a bit, he's tripping. Enough to actually eject someone from the saddle if they weren't paying attention. I can't imagine what he'd do in the arena where we board, he'd probably fall on his face, the footing is nice and deep.
Any ideas? Am I wrong to think that just a poor trim could make that much of a difference? His toes are short, what's he tripping on? He has pretty good animation, too, he's not doing the show horse shuffle. When she was telling me on the phone I was worried about navicular but now I'm not so sure. Her trainer was not impressed with me because my friend- who I am always honest with- asked me what I thought and I said she should get him vet checked. I said I hope it is just the trim but I'd want to know for sure because the tripping is so extreme. I said that if I were a buyer for him and he tripped like that and she said 'oh, it's just his trim, he'll be fine' I wouldn't believe her and I'd pass or get him checked.
The trainer's idea is to get him shoes with rolled toes. It might help. I hope it does. |
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nhg
Junior Member
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Post by nhg on Aug 27, 2014 17:15:17 GMT
Oh damn, how can I get rid of all those cars?
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mistersmom
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Abita Springs, LA
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Post by mistersmom on Aug 27, 2014 17:49:31 GMT
NHG - where you click to insert smilies, at the bottom of that pop up is a button to disenable the smilies.
I don't have any advice for your friend but I would be inclined to have the vet check him out just in case.
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Post by lorddaxter on Aug 27, 2014 17:56:24 GMT
Do you have pics of his feet?
One of mine is prone to trip but he can be lazy, usually a whack with the whip jivvys him up.
Tripping can be signs of so much stuff, navicular, neorological, slipping stifle, shoulder, back pain, cripes to name a few
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Aug 27, 2014 18:04:31 GMT
Thanks MM! Done.
LD, but do you think the tripping could be that bad from a bad trim that doesn't look that bad? I don't have pictures and likely won't get any as I doubt I'll drive out there again any time soon. Well, I might, my daughter wants to try him out and see if he's dropping his shoulder. |
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Lipizzan
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Europe, Croatia
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Post by Lipizzan on Aug 27, 2014 18:37:57 GMT
If you say trim is not the problem, it could be numerous things whit tripping. White line or trush(infections make feet sore so horse is not glad to step on that foot that is infected), laminitis(not really in this case because it would have to be going on for quite some time and it would not go unnoticed), abscess. Also let your friend know to chek if the saddle fits to the horse properly, it could be arthritis in the joints, also maybe some nerve problems?? Just guessing it could be anything.
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Post by horselady on Aug 27, 2014 19:05:48 GMT
I have a feeling the the bad short trim caused his coffin bone to rotate and unless he gets proper care NOW the will continue to rotate and that is not good.
sometimes no trim is better than a real bad one. at least with no trim the horse outside in the fields does a natural trim that nature can provide.
i would not ride that horse for 6-8 weeks and leave him alone with turn out. lots of it. also a vet can assess. but we know that you can not force someone else to do that for their horse.
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Aug 27, 2014 19:52:03 GMT
My friend can certainly afford to have the vet look at him and she would have no problem doing that but she also trusts the trainer and farrier. He had no thrush or anything like that. I think because he wasn't tripping before the trim she's convinced that that's what caused it. You could be right HL.
I really like the horse. If I didn't have Prince and he was for sale I'd buy him. He's black and has a black face with two dark blue eyes. I usually am not a fan of blue eyes but he's beautiful. |
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Post by horselady on Aug 28, 2014 0:06:00 GMT
A person should trust their trainer and farrier. but if they went to vet school they would not be training people and horses nor working under horses risking getting their faces smashed. a vet has equipment for diagnosis and the knowledge that they paid for. perhaps you can suggest she have the vet come out and give flexion or xrays to see what is going on. if she is all that caring she will. if not that there is nothing you can do.  |
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nhg
Junior Member
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Post by nhg on Aug 28, 2014 14:05:51 GMT
You're absolutely right HL. I just put it out here in case anybody had any experiences with a horse tripping that badly just because of a hoof trim. Whether she gets him looked at or not time will tell if he gets better. I was wondering because the trainer was so adamant that that's all it was. I think the farrier is seeing him again today. Too bad I didn't take pictures the other day. I just wish she'd stop having trainers work with him. He's a finished show horse. She rode him outside and asked me why he seemed so much happier outside. I said because arena work is mind numbing and outside he can see things and enjoy himself.
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mingiz
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Los Lunas, NM
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Post by mingiz on Aug 30, 2014 2:52:38 GMT
I agree with HL. A bad trim isn't good for the coffin bone. If I was the owner. I would have him x-rayed to see if there is any rotation. Most tripping is caused by laziness. This doesn't sound that way. I would put him on a good hoof supplement and let him rest and get some growth back in it. Also I wouldn't let the farrier take to much of the sole off. Poor horse...Dumb Owner.. Horses get sour with arena work all the time. He needs a change of scenery.
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redzip
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Post by redzip on Aug 30, 2014 12:47:43 GMT
Agree with Mingiz and HL.
Is he tripping on the fronts or the backs?
If the horse is not using himself properly, traveling from hind to front, thereby lightening the front end,
that could cause him to t r ip in front.
Improper trim, and laziness (not asked to use his hind end) could contribute to a tri ppy horse too,
could be the sign of something neurological, or back problems also.
Lymes, EPM, etc.
I'd want my vet to examine him before he gets someone, or himself, injured.
I'd definitely give him a break until my vet got out to check.
JMO.
Keep us posted as to the outcome.
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nhg
Junior Member
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Post by nhg on Aug 30, 2014 17:12:46 GMT
I'll let you guys know what happens. I love my friend but she's bad for having a horse and then paying other people- trainers or not- to ride it. She doesn't ride nearly enough so she wants to make sure the horse is going to be fine and has been ridden regularly when she does decide to ride. And she likes being able to ask the people who have ridden it if anything scary happened and how the horse behaved. I think it's how she deals with her fear of riding. Then she bought two younger horses- the paint in question and a quarter horse- and has spent a ton of money having them ridden and trained even though they already were. The paint really didn't need it. I rode him the day she brought him home and he was great. The quarter horse has done better with more training as he only had 90 days on him but he's still nowhere near where he should be after two years of training and will never be a show ready horse. Which is fine because my friend will never show but she wants the horses to be at that level. None of it makes sense to me but she's not listening to me so there's not much I can do.
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Post by horselover4life on Sept 2, 2014 14:28:37 GMT
I'll let you guys know what happens. I love my friend but she's bad for having a horse and then paying other people- trainers or not- to ride it.
BINGO!
They like her money and the fact she questions nothing, just goes along for the ride of what ever they say...bottomless money-pockets is what they see and don't want to have shut down on either of them!!
TRUTH!
She needs some solid information what is happening to that horse.
Could he now have rotation from a terrible trim, sure he could.
Could he have broken a bone, sure he could...
Could he, could he.....Yup.
Till she advocates for that horse and does what is right by getting a vet, her vet...one she trusts to give HER THE ANSWERS...that animal is in trouble, period.
Keep it up and she will never get on him when all he does is trip...tripping happens before serious stumbling and falling...not pleasant for horse or rider to endure or stay injury free.
She needs some answers from a vet. Lameness exam, X-rays, ultrasounds possibly to find out the damages that are being compounded.
Without that information she could actually ride the horse into the grave...nice thought, NOT! but truth in it...
Show her these posts...we who have never seen her horse only know what is mentioned all have the same gut feeling... GET A VET and GET SOME ANSWERS NOW.
Before it's to late!!
You're a good friend, one who knows and sees enough to recognize a problem and knows it needs addressing to find a cause BY A VET!!
With knowledge and the equipment that can see inside the body what hurts or happened and how to "fix" it...
Hugs...it stinks to have to stand by and watch a animal suffering and suffering it sounds like is now happening.
jmo...
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Sept 2, 2014 16:20:52 GMT
I agree HL4L. Right now she's so busy as they just bought an acreage and are slowly moving their things into it and trying to get their old house ready to be sold. She also owns her own business and is having issues with staff. Boy, can I relate. We'll be there to see what's going on next week sometime. The farrier didn't make it last Thursday so he's supposed to look at him this coming Thursday so there's no update.
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Sept 12, 2014 17:38:53 GMT
So the farrier finally came out after rebooking twice. He says the horse had abcesses in both front feet. I wish I'd been there. My friend texted me so I don't have all the details or know why this might be the case or what would have caused this. Could a bad trim from the last guy cause abcesses? If so, why didn't they blow or at least one? Abcesses are not something I've had much experience with, thank goodness. A horse I had when I was a kid had an abcess that I think the farrier cut out(?) but the horse hadn't been lame. She'd had her shoes on too long, though, because my parents knew nothing about horses. There was no indication that it was there, either. She says he left him with long toes to help him. We're seeing them tomorrow night. I'm really curious about his new trim because he has no heels. I saw him the other day when we rode out there but I forgot my phone so I couldn't take pictures. I'll ask her more questions, too. |
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Post by lorddaxter on Sept 13, 2014 0:34:38 GMT
Not sure how long toes would help, a proper trim would do more good, where were the abscesses on the foot exactly?
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Sept 13, 2014 1:44:36 GMT
I'll ask her tomorrow. Is there anything else I should ask?
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Sept 15, 2014 15:18:52 GMT
So we went there on Saturday evening. He's not tripping anymore with his new trim and it looks like a good trim, he even has a bit of heel starting. Both abcesses were at the front right at the white line from what she says. We looked at them but there was nothing to see. I'm glad he's feeling better and my daughter rode him quite a while that night and he didn't even stumble. So I guess a farrier can trim a horse so short at the toe that he gets abcesses right there. I never knew that. Horses' feet are so freaking delicate it's scary.
So here's another interesting thing. The two of them have been in training for so long now and are not where they should be considering how much time has been spent on them (and money). Now that I can see someone riding them at a lope from the ground who knows what she's doing- my daughter- I can see how bad their lopes are. Both are heavy on the forehand, both drop their shoulders to the inside in a circle, neither will necessarily pick up the correct lead or can do a flying lead change, either gets into the lope well (poor transitions) and neither gets his back end under himself. One has a jarring stop because he stops on his front end. And neither seemed to know what a counter bend was. Both were visibly doing better by the time my daughter had been riding them for a while. It's too bad she's not a trainer, she really knows how to get a horse moving properly.
I think my friend is wasting her money on the so-called trainers. The younger horse is pissy and seems arena sour. He's well bred and is a half brother to the horse my daughter just sold but he's not going to be more than a family horse. Which is fine, that's all she wants. I have a suspicion that my friend takes them to a new trainer and tells them she doesn't want them to be show ready or do higher end things, she just wants a good, safe horse that goes slow. But shouldn't the trainer still teach a horse how to use it's own body?
Our other friend was trying to get the younger horse to lope but couldn't get him to do it, he was just trotting faster and faster. He also does pissy things like walks so close to the wall that your stirrup scrapes it and other little behaviours and he hates going away from the other horse if the other horse is just standing there. She was getting frustrated so I offered to get on and see if I could get him to lope. I had to really kick him to get him away from the other horse and then he immediately was going to rub me on the wall. I tuned him in right away and off we went. He did go into a lope easily with me but it was so rough the saddle was spanking my butt. I was just starting to get his rhythm when suddenly it felt like a big elastic got snapped in my lower back and the instant pain was shocking. I stopped him right away and must have yelled out or something because everybody was running to me. They thought I'd reopened my tummy wound. I had to get them to bring over the mounting block to get off. Today the pain is pretty much gone, thank goodness, but that was scary.
My friend is talking about moving them to where we board. Then we can help her more and my daughter can work with them. It's about time she has some help that doesn't cost her money and from people who will be honest with her. |
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mistersmom
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Abita Springs, LA
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Post by mistersmom on Sept 15, 2014 15:40:26 GMT
Sounds like your friend definitely needs a change. I'm glad the horse isn't tripping anymore. Perhaps it was from the pain of the abscesses?
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