mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Aug 16, 2014 1:42:38 GMT
My property sets pretty low, especially where I have the barn (bad, bad planning on my part). When we get a heavy rain or several days in a row with rain, the barn floods. When we built the barn after Hurricane Katrina, we put a concrete chain wall around most of the perimeter so water that does get in can't get out. On top of that, Mister pees in the same place and thus a large hole has developed in the dirt floor. Lately I have been able to keep Mister high and dry at my grandparent's house 5 minutes away while we deal with his white line. So while he is on "vacation" (and once it starts to cool off a bit), I am looking to try to rectify the flooding situation. I plan to put gutters up on both the front and back of the barn. I am also looking to fill in the holes and raise/even out the level of the "floor" and install stall mats. This way, even if the barn floods, the water will be under the stall mats and thus not a problem for Mister. Here are my questions. I'm not sure what would be the best substrate to use under the stall mats. I'm thinking crushed limestone would be a good, solid, un-shifting base - is this a good choice? I figure sand and/or dirt/clay would possibly shift. Also, any recommendations for stall mats? I was going to look at the ones that TSC has in stock. I'm not planning on moving these mats once in place so if they are heavy or hard to manage, it will be ok. I think I would prefer the thicker, heavier ones so they won't shift either. (And I have a plethora of 16-year old boys to help place them ). I will try to get some pictures of the chain wall and Mister's pee hole to give you an idea what I am having to deal with.
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Terry
Junior Member
Central Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,466
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Post by Terry on Aug 16, 2014 3:33:53 GMT
I can totally sympathize with your situation. Our barn sits at the bottom of a hill, and every time we get a heavy rain our barn floods. The horses had also caused some major dips in their stalls over the years. When we built our barn we just had some fill sand brought in and then we placed mats over it. That obviously didn't work out long term, so last month my hubby tore the stalls apart, built frames inside each stall to raise the level of the stall floors, and then he filled them with crushed lime, rented a compactor to pack it all down tight, and then put the mats back down. We've had several pretty good rains since then and so far the stalls are staying dry! Hopefully they will continue to stay dry now, and hopefully the crushed lime won't shift and create dips again. Fingers crossed!
As for mats, I guess someone else will have to give you some advice on that. Our mats and stall walls are rubber, but they aren't store-bought mats. The BO where we used to board had bought some huge rolls of tire rubber which he was using in the new stalls he was building, so we bought some from him to do our stalls with. Our rubber is pretty thick and VERY heavy (and hubby had a heck of a time cutting it to fit), but it doesn't shift, and we have very few seams.
Here is a picture of one of our stalls after hubby tore it all apart, built a frame, and filled it with crushed, compacted lime.
This picture is of the other stall after the sub-floor was finished and hubby had laid the rubber back down.
Here is one of the stalls after hubby had completely finished redoing it and had it all put back together again.
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Post by horselover4life on Aug 16, 2014 11:21:39 GMT
Wow Terry...quite a large...rather huge job. Now done hopefully to never need repeating. Looks great BTW........... I can't make mention of the flooring material, my current barn is sand/dirt and I honestly add 1 bag of shavings a week that mixes in. Chance only eats his feed, sleeps and rolls in his stall. He has his hay under the large roof area and he {by his choice} doesn't mess under the barn. I have worked in places though where the stalls flooded all the time. We raised them with dirt, then concreted them over that, then added more dirt then added six inches of heavy shavings...the stalls in that part of the barn were the lowest point of the property...small shower and I had a mess to deal with. I think we had to go up 18" to get above grade besides having the ground outside barricaded it seemed like. Water diversion with gutters on the barn and in the ground needed... Again, poor planning created a issue. If the barn was 2 feet away never would of happened... As to the mats at TSC... I can tell you the ones my sons instructor has don't move! She uses them in the aisle-way of her barn for the grooming area. Wheelbarrows, horses literally running in or out, standing, turning & pivoting, tractor running across them...not 1 inch have I seen them move. I, when helping with barn chores have a hard time lifting/dragging them so I can clean, rake and make nice her aisle-way again. 2 hands and a lot of heave-ho needed. In a stall...IDK...only have had experience with them in the aisle. I know many don't like concrete... Myself...with a issue of flooding... concrete is a solution that you can raise it up as high as needed then can build on top of it once cured. I would make a footing from 2"x 10"....pour 4" of concrete, let it cure. Now once cured add sand/dirt and then mats if you still want then add shavings on top. Yes, you will need to grade some for Mister to go in and out, although he could lift his legs but you won't flood again in his stall or that part of the barn. Remember though what you fix in one spot will create another. Water will look for the easiest place to get to and do damage. Not what you want to hear...but it would work. Good luck...and project pictures you know are a must.
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Sept 23, 2014 13:28:52 GMT
Ok, so it is cooling off now and I am getting motivated to tackle this project. I am still trying to figure out what to put under the stall mats. One day I am sure I should use some kind of gravel but then the next I think concrete might be better. I know whatever I use will need to be nice and compact and level so the mats lay flat and don't buckle at the seams. This is where I start thinking concrete might be better. But even with mats and shavings, I don't like the idea of horses standing around on concrete. Mister only comes in the barn to rest and get out of the weather, I never lock him in a stall; it is open for him to come and go as he pleases.
Another question about the stall mats though - do they get slippery when they get wet? I was thinking about extending them beyond the doorways so I don't end up with holes at the doorway. But I worry about the mats getting slippery when rained on. Also I was reading the reviews on TSC and it seems like they recently switched mats to a lesser quality (?). What should I be looking for in a mat? Should it have the channels underneath like some seem to have? I wonder if it would be easier/better to use that paint on bed liner stuff instead of mats. Although I guess that wouldn't give much cushion on top of the concrete.
Sorry, just trying to think "out loud".
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Post by horselover4life on Sept 23, 2014 13:55:38 GMT
I just bought mats about a month ago at my TSC.... they have 2 sizes in stock. 2'x4' and 4'x6'. The smaller one was on sale for $20 a piece...larger goes on sale around now...normally around $32 a piece.
I can tell you the smaller one did not have channels or traction things built into it but the larger ones did and they are heavy!! Large ones I could barely move by myself do to awkwardness but they aren't lite either!! We bought 2 smaller ones. I have one inside the horses stall where he stands to eat his feed and the other one outside where we have his hay. He is spoiled that he not get dirt/sand mixed into his foods...{actually trying not to get sand colic with how fine our sand is down here and so many get issues} Now that he has the mats he cleans up every last piece of his food...nothing left behind like was happening. Smart horse he knows not to eat what touches the ground so not to get to much sand in his gut...
This is a link to the larger mat... www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/rubber-horse-stall-mat-4-ft-x-6-ft
They have interlocking ones but I did not want them...and I don't want thin stuff that I would be buying by the foot and using more to line my trailer walls with than a stall floor mat.
As for the limestone and solidifying.... My neighbor before we moved here put crushed coral on our driveway after his tractor trailer made deep ruts when he came and went...{ } What was a loose material is now hard as concrete and bumpy driving on... I don't know if crushed coral is the same basic material as limestone...something to think about.
Me...I would do concrete so you can build as high as you need, make a "ramp" in or out ....then mat and bed the stall. I know many hate concrete.... what I think about though is if you put down a product and pack it solid...you just made a very hard shock absorbing material anyway... Why not just do the concrete once, it is done and you won't have issue again of rain flooding. It doesn't shift, nor unless you have one heck of a pawing horse do you get holes... None of us are getting younger.......... one time is enough on this kind of a heavy & hard job. wag finger
Sheesh...another book!!
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Sept 23, 2014 14:12:08 GMT
I wonder what the cost difference is between say crushed limestone and concrete? I will have to take some measurements and try to estimate how much I will need (hard to say with holes and what not).
I have heard of crushed coral but haven't seen it around here. Perhaps a FL thing?
Luckily I have access to several strapping 17 year old boys when the work needs to get done!
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Post by horselover4life on Sept 23, 2014 14:40:34 GMT
I have no idea about the cost of the materials. My neighbor knew we were not pleased when we came "home" towing our car hauler and dragged it down the driveway due to the deep ruts his truck & trailer made On Our Property!! ... I was slightly PISSED OFF!! He isn't supposed to even have the truck here at the house. wag finger If we wanted to be difficult we could fence and gate the property, that would stop him from coming home with the truck, but that is not neighborly of us...so he put down coral chunks that when he drove over them enough times with the truck & trailer they pulverized and now we have bumps... Bumps though do alert us to anyone arriving...my dogs then go nuts!!
So...moral of that story is... My neighbor is cheap! So material was not expensive I can guarantee.
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Terry
Junior Member
Central Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,466
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Post by Terry on Sept 23, 2014 15:34:52 GMT
We had initially planned to do concrete when we redid our stalls, but my farrier STRONGLY advised against it. He is the one who recommended the crushed lime. We had already gotten a rough estimate for the concrete work (well over a thousand dollars). Hubby picked up 2 tons of lime in his truck for $40.00. The job took us 4 tons of lime total, so $80.00 for the lime as opposed to thousands for concrete.
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Sept 23, 2014 15:42:25 GMT
And Terry - what did you/he use to pack it down?
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Terry
Junior Member
Central Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,466
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Post by Terry on Sept 23, 2014 16:14:17 GMT
He rented a power tamper/compactor (whatever it's called ).
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mingiz
Junior Member
Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 3,320
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Post by mingiz on Sept 23, 2014 23:15:48 GMT
I wouldn't do concrete either. The last barn I worked at had it and mats over it. Well it was ok but the mats shifted and the urine got under the mats. Plus there isn't any give for the horse. If you adjusted one mat you had to do all of them. These stalls were huge 16x16. I would go with the limestone or something that will pack well. Maybe even rent a packer and pack it all down before you put the mats in. Once I get my barn ready for stalls. I will use mats. I have one blond horse that digs when eating. Back east we used a good clay type dirt then pea gravel. AS for mats outside the stalls YES they do get slippery when wet. Even when dew gets on them.
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mingiz
Junior Member
Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 3,320
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Post by mingiz on Sept 24, 2014 0:01:39 GMT
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Sept 25, 2014 18:36:09 GMT
Ok, I got to thinking about the limestone. Since I don't know if adding the substrate and stall mats will actually keep the water from getting into the barn (it seems like it is seeping in from underneath?), I wonder if the crushed/powdered limestone is really a good idea? Wouldn't it break down from the water?
Still don't like the idea of concrete. I think I will go talk to the guys at the place nearby that sells dirt/sand/gravel and see if they have any ideas or suggestions.
Terry - how many stalls did those two tons of lime fill? Size of stalls?
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Terry
Junior Member
Central Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,466
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Post by Terry on Sept 25, 2014 19:20:40 GMT
The 4 tons of crushed limestone filled two 12' x 12' stalls, plus we had some left over that we used to fill in low spots in other areas of the barn.
I think that, if hubby hadn't built a frame inside each stall and built up the level of the stall floors with crushed limestone to the tops of the frames, we might still have problems, but raising the height of the floor (with the treated wood frame around the perimeter to help hold everything in place) has kept my barn completely dry so far, and we've had quite a few heavy downpours since he finished the project. In the past, any one of those downpours would have left us with flooded stalls.
I just remembered a couple more things he did... since the frames for the new stall floors don't go all the way to the exterior barn walls, it leaves about a 4" to 6" gap between our stall walls and our barn walls, and he did put concrete down in that gap on the side where most of the water usually comes in. He made sure when he was finished that the level of the concrete was higher than the bottom of the barn wall by about 6 inches, effectively closing the gap between the barn wall and the ground.
In Zena's stall (which he did 2nd), he was getting tired of shoveling and compacting crushed lime, so he put a base layer of CA6 rock down and then put the crushed limestone over that. Like I said, both of our stalls have stayed completely dry.
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Post by horselover4life on Oct 10, 2014 13:11:35 GMT
MM....
I just opened my mail from 2 days ago.. {oops }.....
Tractor Supply has the stall mats on sale through 10/12. 4'x 6' x 3/4" thick @ $34.99 in their flyer. States anti-slip pattern topside for safety. Fully vulcanized for longest life.
I love spending others money...
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Oct 10, 2014 13:21:52 GMT
LOL, thanks hl4l - I was actually there yesterday and saw that. The ones here don't seem to have the channels underneath - it is really necessary?
Going to do some math to see how many I need.
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Post by horselover4life on Oct 10, 2014 13:45:43 GMT
I don't think so...........
I can understand slippery if wet in a wash stall, but you are using them in a stall stall with bedding. Personally, I would think the channels would hold and make tougher removing soiled bedding if it is "stuck" to the grooves or design...
My mats are smaller and I use one under Chances feed bucket and another where he eats his hay. I have had no problems with him and traction on them...nor do my crazy canines when they go flying through the barn playing with each other. Thankfully, Chance just glares and gives a dirty look and continues to munch away....
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Oct 10, 2014 14:00:01 GMT
Hmmm, I thought the channels went on the bottom! Shows you how much I know. I just did the math - I need about 31 mats! OMG, this is getting expensive. I guess I don't need to put mats down in the whole barn but won't that look bad if it's not finished? Maybe just put shavings over packed dirt in the areas he really doesn't use/walk around on? But if I sell the house down the road, wouldn't you as a potential buyer rather see the whole barn matted?
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Post by horselover4life on Oct 10, 2014 15:06:26 GMT
Some people put the channels up & some do down........
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Oct 10, 2014 15:33:50 GMT
Here's the layout of my barn - note that this is no where near to scale, just something I threw together, just in case it would help in some way. The solid lines are walls/doors that exist. The dotted lines are walls/doors/partitions that should/will eventually be put up but for right now, the left side of the barn is just one big open area (instead of three 12x12 stalls). I wish I had made the aisle way much wider but what's done is done now. The red areas are where my big holes are but the floor is uneven all over.
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