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Post by horselover4life on Feb 27, 2015 22:29:16 GMT
Lip...Chances issue was a human who used him as a breathing punching bag and whipped his hide literally off his body, among other things.
So he has justified issues.
My son is disabled, this horse he fell in love with and they do well together usually.
It is now that as they "team up" and we ask for more the bad treatment is being exposed.
I only look for something to give the horse a second to think before fear first reactions occur.
My son is a beginner rider, but better than I probably give him credit.
He works hard, he deserves and so does his horse to make a team built on trust....that though is where that tweaking needs assistance.
This would not be a forever thing. We have found certain things trigger a instant fear reaction....we can't avoid them forever.
I don't want my son hurt, nor his horse to be sold that he loves.
I don't believe in "drugs" either, but if the animal had a chemical deficiency only to fix that. Fixing that deficiency should also fix the problem.
If Chance was anemic we would supplement with iron... no different to me.
Otherwise, I will be hated by him, but I will sell his horse to keep him safe.
I told him this and he cried and pleaded not to sell his Chance!!
So I look for answers and stay close when he rides....yet not hover and cramp them.
Thanks Apollo....blood work is going to be done first as I also know only so much can be absorbed before wasting money or causing damage.
If you could find that information it would be fantastic.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 22:43:16 GMT
I agree, drugs are not the answer and I have heard that things like Ace don't decrease the fear the horse feels, just mutes the response. This may be me humanizing a horse, but I think that would be more damaging in the long term. However, anything that can help a traumatized horse think more clearly and slow down its fear response can be helpful in these situations, both for keeping the horse, and those who love it safe.
I have heard good things about Confidence EQ which uses pheromones. Its a gel, and it is expensive, but from everything I have heard it works.
Calm + Wafers is another (this will test in Canada, not sure about the US)
Calm X, Equilite Relax Blend, both contain Valerian, which tests positive in Canada, but is an effective calming agent, I actually really liked the ingredient list in the Equilite.
Relax saver is another to consider.
It might also be worth looking into essential oils of some sort. These probably wont be as effective as an actual supplement, but they might help if rubbed around the nostrils. There are entire websites dedicated to horse specific blends.
Hope you find something. :)
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hugs
Junior Member
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Post by hugs on Feb 28, 2015 2:08:18 GMT
Think of all of this stuff as tools that we use to get where we are trying to go. I trust everyone here to do the best they can and we all do that in our own way.
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Post by diamondgirl on Feb 28, 2015 2:46:30 GMT
I get to work with humans who sometimes, react to situations, that arise in life, because of trauma that occurred in their past. Some of the reactions are extreme, and are really out of their control. Medications can help them regain their control, and that, along with therapy helps them to live, a more normal life.
We can't always help, what horse we fall in love with. Sometimes a horse comes along that simply steals out heart. My heart was stolen by a little gray Arabian, with an ornery streak a mile wide. He can't be ridden, and causes problems with the other two when we ride them. I certainly can't safely turn my back on him, but he has stolen my heart. Forever.
If Chance has stolen your sons heart, than I can understand why you want to try everything to keep him safe, while keeping the two of them together.
I am sorry I don't know anything about calming supplements, but if you can find the right one, to help Chance to have a clear head, so he can understand that he isn't going to be hurt anymore, than it is worth the effort to find it.
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Post by mustangsavvy on Feb 28, 2015 23:43:05 GMT
So is the Bilmonster generally mostly nervous? With Peaches she can go from calm to freak in a second. Other than training what does one do with that? Would a supllement help? He is just generally nervous/anxious about new stuff and random stuff. I think the supplement helps a ton. |
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hugs
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Post by hugs on Mar 1, 2015 0:51:39 GMT
Peaches is uncomfortable about new stuff too. She was good with the sunbeams in the arena today so she does get over stuff. I wonder if there is a nutritional deficiency associated with belligerence?
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Post by mustangsavvy on Mar 1, 2015 1:32:05 GMT
Peaches is uncomfortable about new stuff too. She was good with the sunbeams in the arena today so she does get over stuff. I wonder if there is a nutritional deficiency associated with belligerence? My understanding that the magnesium and several other nutritional deficiency can lead to increased spookiness, which is why this supplement works. |
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hugs
Junior Member
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Post by hugs on Mar 1, 2015 13:39:06 GMT
Yeah, makes sense, just nothing for someone being a jerk
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Post by horselover4life on Jun 17, 2015 11:54:59 GMT
An update to this....
Our horse has been on the "newest" of supplement now for 4 weeks.
Container states a noticeable change within 10 days when fed in the "loading" amounts then reduced to the maintenance amounts as directed.
So, fed according to directions and after consulting with our vet on correct dosage for our situation.
Was advised to keep the horse in the "loading" amount for 15 days then go to maintenance...blood work backed this up.
Follow-up bloods done a couple days ago again prove values are where they need to be.... slightly higher in some. 
So....
We have been trail riding {the same trail!} , every weekend both days consistently, then riding in our pasture I work the horse twice more every week. The horse is being worked/ridden 4 days a week. Now going on 7 weeks. {Remember it is over 100* in the sun here by 10:30 AM now... I just came in from riding him. It is 86* on my porch in semi-sun so HOT in the sun..I'm dripping wet!}
It is hot and has taken the starch out of all of my neighbors, her friends and our other horse{s} but not this one.
He is still sweet as can be for me on the ground, although stubborn at times, but still reactive astride.
Always on high alert and ready to spin and run {can you tell I've hit the ground a few times}
Things he has seen repeatedly {in our yard or on the same trail} for no reason he reacts to. Imaginary things....
We have a training issue here at this point.
My neighbor has been riding him for me on the trail as she knows the trail well and knows the "scary" spots most horses react to.
Not mine, he is fine those areas and just gets a whim and boom you're on the ground! Not the same spot does he pick either!
So, there are trainers available by me of course.
I can spend 30 days {about $650} having him schooled and ridden with no guarantee it will help....
No guarantee if he gets rid of his "attitude" it won't revert with how my son rides him. Horse will take advantage of him I know!
He is not a strong rider and this horse needs that. He is not "my kind of horse", sadly. I just don't want to put the time in honestly that needs done...I don't want him for me, but for my son!
This horse needs a true job.
One where he will be ridden and used everyday, hard work to make him tired and exposed to everything with a rider who won't take crap, can stay astride and push him through this "phase" of nonsense he pulls.
That rider is NOT me....
I like the horses personality immensely...
At this point in time though...
He is for sale or to be traded for a horse who doesn't have these issues and can be ridden safely by all of us.
My neighbor flat out won't ride him again, period!
I have "0" desire to but still do as he needs the work, and he is beyond the abilities of my husband or son to ride safely. 
I'm tired of "eating dirt". I want to see the rider who stays on when he whirls and spins, no warning! Just BOOM!!
I don't want to nor can I afford to get hurt....
He is a gaming or barrel prospect with his agility and his love to run....ohhh...did I mention he loves to run!! He is quick too!! 
I'll let everyone know when we have a new horse... unless someone can tell me what else to do or try...GONE!!
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
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Post by mistersmom on Jun 17, 2015 17:14:04 GMT
I think it's a good decision to put this horse up for sale. You don't need to be dealing with issues like that and your son needs something much more consistent. Best of luck with your search.
hey, if you tell us what you are looking for, the rest of us can go searching as well (who doesn't love window shopping for horses!!!).
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Post by horselover4life on Jun 17, 2015 19:41:08 GMT
mister....
I have nothing in mind except it to be a safe ride, period!
As of 10 minutes ago, .....
Tonight I deliver my horse to a friends house for a trial basis and I am taking her horse to my home for a trail basis.
My son is in a fit, being nasty and very uncooperative with the entire idea....working himself into a frenzied bad mood.
TOUGH!!!
He is going one-way or the other and that is it!
In the meantime, the girl taking him knows all the facts.
Her step-dad is a very accomplished rider, old-school but kind.
He works with problem horses for a living when moving cattle on the ranches here.
He is in a quiet work period of time right now so the horse will get ridden and worked as he really needs.
The horse I will bring home if we like him is a trail horse. He knows nothing else.
All I know is he is about the same size, grey in color, around the same age I'm told and quiet.
So far, that sounds like it might be a working relationship.
He has bit her but she says it was her fault for not paying attention not the horses.... told her he will bite me once and never again open his mouth to do so if he dares in the first place. My reprimand is hard, fast and not soon forgotten!
We can only try......
Now to see if my kid is still talking to me or not... mini-graphics-smileys-746129
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
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Post by mistersmom on Jun 17, 2015 19:57:44 GMT
 I know about kids not talking to you. He will get over it in time. Let us know how things go with the new horse. It sounds like an ideal situation for the current horse.
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Post by horselover4life on Jun 17, 2015 20:07:23 GMT
It sounds like an ideal situation for the current horse.For me too mm....
I am also not enjoying eating dirt. 
If I could keep him and just have a pet I would....
But we want to ride as a family, and keeping a mouth to feed and care for without being able to ride safely and depend on him....
It just can't be, for all our sakes and safety.
I know my limitations on what I can handle or not.
Since I seriously hurt my back from a car accident...the less times I hit the dirt the safer it is keeping me out of a w/c for life, truth!
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Post by carshon on Jun 17, 2015 20:46:16 GMT
I hope it works out for you horselover4L. I have a rescue mare that I have owned for 10 years now (the one with the large tumor) and she was just like that- it took a firm had and a confident seat to ride her. Over time it got better but you always had to be on the alert. Not a beer drinking horse! Terrified to the point of flipping herself over of the wind turbines in our area. My vet says that she does not have a "reset" button - that once she is on - she is on.
Went to ride Naughty Steve last night and he has a huge welt right behind his withers directly on his spine. Thinking bug bite or got a nick when rolling - so decided to ride Senorita - mind you we were riding in the pasture she grazes every day with horses she lives with and she jigged and tossed her head and spooked at everything! Some horse just don't know "off"
Hope to see pics of a happy son on a willing horse soon!
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Post by horselover4life on Jun 18, 2015 2:26:41 GMT
So...it is done!!
I have mixed emotions truly, but know what we had was unsafe so we try again... smileys-sad-593832
His horse is gone and a new one here in his place.
Large brown specked grey he appears. It was dusk, he was soaking wet from sweat and nerves...
My neighbor rode him for a few minutes then my son we led around.
The horse was nervous but not spooky walking in a part of a yard/field he has never seen before.
He has a soft brown liquid-y eyes and "floppy" relaxed ears even though he was nervous...
Only issue is he broke my leather halter when I went to tie him on the trailer he got frightened and flew backward.
He had a nylon halter on underneath the leather one and that was the one my lead-shank was attached to {whew!} so he didn't get loose from us. Once he knew he was getting on he got on and stayed on.
Hondo was a calming influence and glad we took him along for the ride. Hondo never returned the call from Chance either once we took him off....he was a steady ride home partner for the new guy.
No firm decisions have been made that this guy is staying either....time will tell.
We won't make any decisions for a few weeks... time to settle some, ride and see what he can do for our son and if he is a good trail horse he can ride...
We {neighbor & I} will ride him first to see what he is like...shake-down time!!
He does desperately need a human to call his own who will give him love and attention....he loves his face rubbed and scratched I found out tonight...if he could purrr he would have!
He needs weight too, around 100+ pounds on his frame. He is tall, lanky....about 15.3 ribby and spine showing, hip girdle and "hunters bump" with the tail head showing not severely but it is there....some groceries to be fed and in need of muscle. He makes our "coach potatoes" look like trim and fit horses and they are far from that....
So, no pictures yet and no name either.
He doesn't know his name nor did he really have a name....a work in progress to find him a name and teach him it so he comes when called as all the other horses do to us!!
Now off to bed...been quite a exhausting emotional afternoon and evening in this house....many tears and sad frowns...
I am trying to add photos.... bear with me doing this please...
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redzip
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Post by redzip on Jun 18, 2015 10:51:41 GMT
I can't believe I'm just finally seeing this thread HL4L,., I actually have some input, altho I see you've made your decision 
Probably best that you try to find a more calm horse,., can't say I blame you and hope this next one is quieter, and a better fit for your needs. That being said, I went the route of a magnesium supplement with Zippy bc of the spookiness, and reactiveness, and I felt like it helped him some.
Hes on SmartPak and gets it daily,., just stayed with it.
I do not know what the trainer did with Zippy in March, but when he came home,
he was a different horse with regard to the spookiness.
I had asked her to expose to anything she could, that his spookiness was my biggest problem.
Whatever she did, he was changed.
Its exhausting when they behave that way, you can't relax and enjoy the ride,
and they can't relax and focus.
It becomes cyclic, they spook, you become 'on guard' for the spooks,
they read your 'on guard' body language as an extra reason to spook, and the cycle goes round and round.
Looking forward to hearing how this new horse turns out apple |
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Post by horselady on Jun 18, 2015 11:45:36 GMT
I am positive you are going to get this new horse to show what he knows and get him round. again you know to take it slow with the food intake so he does not colic or get sick.
as for mike being upset ,sure he is , that was his first real horse but as he gets to know the one he will understand your reasoning as why you did what you did.
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Post by horselover4life on Jun 18, 2015 12:36:04 GMT
Well, it is the best light of the day without heat...
I went out to really look at this boy in good light.
He is really thin! wag finger
His ribs are more than ribby, his spine is prominent along with the hip girdle, his hip bones stick out and his flanks are sunk inward. 
Some groceries for sure.
How people allow a horse to get in this condition is beyond me. 
He also is a screamer! 
He is by himself locked in our pasture for a few days so all get to meet him over a fence and hopefully the kick fest doesn't happen when they do get put out together.
He was turned out with cows and steers, only horse, yet he has already become attached just seeing our horses... {this is how Chance was, separation anxiety case #2 here we go again}
I need to worm him as I don't know when that was done last...
He has only been on grass pasture and although I am told he has gained a tremendous weight from what he looked like when he was acquired....no grain/feed!
So, this morning he had a handful of alfalfa pellets and a fat supplement that contains vitamins and minerals too. He ate it like he was starving!
All the hay he can eat, I will put it in a haynet for him so not dragging it all over the ground and wasting it....he doesn't clean up like my boys do when munching their hay.
I have to go buy him some less protein rich hay so he can eat his fill and not get sick....
A much needed bath he needs...he smells and is so sticky. Disgusting!
I'm not spending the money for the vet just yet till we know we are keeping him.
Haven't looked at his teeth yet and need to find out what if anything she has given him vaccination wise.
I know of where he was about a year ago....they took care of him, but not sure now what he has had done.
He knows what stalls are but has had no protection except trees for the last several months running with the cattle.
He was very happy hanging out this morning quietly till I went to give him his hay...now he is pacing and screaming.
Michael was better last night after he spoke with my mom about his new horse.
Hearing from her that he needs to give this guy a chance he settled down and agreed a few weeks he/we will try for.
If he still so pines for Chance, I will go bring him home... he will become the pasture pet I had not planned on having. We have already been offered this guy no matter what if we want him too.... a good home is all the girl wanted for him. She will continue her search for a more challenging mount for herself...
Work in progress, a few projects now in progress. smileys-home-474322
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Post by carshon on Jun 18, 2015 12:54:30 GMT
Not sure where people get the idea that throwing horses in with cattle is a good idea. The Angus farm my son works at has a horse in with the cows. The owner bought it for his girlfriend and it was too much for her so they threw it out with the cows. The horse lost weight but became herd bound with the cows. My son is not a horse lover but has been around horses his entire life - he recognized he needed to be somewhere else and the owner said if you can catch him do with him what you want. Son took our trailer with one horse in it over to the pasture and that horse almost knocked down the fence trying to get near our horse. Long story short that horse found a new home - and looks great.
I am sure your new gelding will come around - you have already shown him more love in less than 24 hours that it sounds like he has seen in quite a while. Give him a chance to settle in and I am hoping you have the mount for your son you were hoping for.
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Post by horselover4life on Jun 18, 2015 13:42:25 GMT
red...
We did Remission supplement along with a few others over several months of time. I had already started long before I wrote here in frustration....
Remission I found is some of the highest Magnesium along with the other supporting minerals/vitamins needed for best utilization available on the market.
It is also known to help with "crestiness" of the neck, slimming of the barrel that are clues for some IR tendencies you can watch for.... and founder help.
So, he was on this for a month with no changes to anything except his coat was more luxurious, deep colored and softer than ever.
Packaging says results on nervousness and "uptight" will see improvement in about 2 weeks or sooner... ...nothing, nada, didn't improve one bit of what I looked for.
So, he goes to a new home where he gets a new chance to show his great stuff off and a chance for his training issue to be worked upon by a very secure rider with no prejudice or looking for it...she knows it is there just not exactly how/why it comes about, then neither do I. She knows what he does exactly, I did not hide that and was very upfront telling her. {girls father is a cowboy and horse trainer of problem issues and she already said he will be working with him.}
I don't do Smartpak as I scoop and feed adding supplements as needed for my horses myself every morning or night...their feed is already laid out in bags pre-measured if I need someone else to feed when I am away.
I am just not a fan of a company I've not dealt with nor know the quality of their products they promote.... till I see and hear good reports from those I know and trust that are knowledgeable horsepeople I am not likely to try them myself either.. You have to prove to me you warrant my business not on advertising hype.... not a dig at anyone who uses them, I am just a, "I want to see the results first kind of person".
So, we try a new horse and see if Chance does well in his new home too.
I will be going to check on him as he is still my horse and my responsibility to not abandon him to sub-par conditions...
I won't just turn and walk away from him either...I owe him a good home where he will receive good care and love!!
My plan is to see him on Saturday. Just a phone call of I'm coming and arrive in 5 minutes....was told I can come anytime so will be doing that with a courtesy call.
I want to know where my horse is and how he is. If, and a big if, we do let him go, I sign over a bill of sale and release his coggins...then I know he has a good home and I in return have a good horse too.
All projects in the works.... 
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I know about kids not talking to you. He will get over it in time. Let us know how things go with the new horse. It sounds like an ideal situation for the current horse.
