Terry
Junior Member
Central Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,466 
|
Post by Terry on Feb 14, 2015 16:49:20 GMT
My farrier came out yesterday to trim the girls. Fortunately, since he came out on my day off this time, I actually got to be there. He trimmed Pocket first. He started with her right front - she lifted it, held it up, and was a perfect angel. Next he moved to her right rear - she didn't want to lift it, but he got it up and then she started trying to pull it away. She was lunging forward toward me, kicking out and bucking trying to get that leg away from him. He ultimately got that hoof trimmed, and he was very patient with her throughout the whole ordeal with that leg, but he said he thinks she probably has a sore/injured stifle and that's why she was acting like that. He said when he moved the foot forward underneath her, she was fine, but when he tried to pull it back so he could trim it, that's when she started acting up again, so it obviously hurts her. After he finished trimming that hoof he let go of her leg and she stood there for a while with the leg still cocked and holding it up in the air. Once she finally put the leg down he moved to her left side and she stood like a perfect angel to have both left hooves trimmed, so the only problem was with that right hind leg.
I asked him how she had done for her first trim (since I hadn't been home for that one), and he said she had done pretty well, but that he does remember that she had hopped a bit trying to get that same leg away from him that time, too, but she didn't act up quite as badly that time as she did this time. He said he had just chalked it up to her being new, nervous, and a little skittish about anyone messing around her hind end (she acts like she has been beaten in her past life smileys-sad-593832). Now it makes us both wonder if she didn't have something going on with that stifle when we bought her. He suggested that we just take a wait and see approach for now. Keep an eye on it and give her time to see if it heals up on it's own. If not, then we'll need to bring the vet in to take a look.
I've never dealt with stifle issues, so what can you guys tell me? I certainly don't want the poor little thing to be in pain, but I also don't want to rush to spend money on vet bills if this is possibly something that can resolve itself in time. |
|
mingiz
Junior Member
Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 3,320
|
Post by mingiz on Feb 15, 2015 1:45:46 GMT
There isn't really anything a vet can do. You might give her some bute. It maybe an old injury that came out. Or she could have slipped running around and strained it. Is there any heat or swelling in the stifle area? It could also be poor muscle tone. I know when I first got Rawhide if he turned on his haunches he would pop his stifle out. Since he has gotten more muscle tone he hasn't done it anymore. When JR blew his out he was literally dragging his hind leg. I stalled him and gave him bute until he started using it again. Then gave him a long time off to heal up. But he still short strides that leg. You could try rubbing some liniment in the area to help get the blood flowing to help with healing. Don't waste your money calling a vet. JR doesn't like his hind leg being held up to high either while being trimmed.
|
|
|
|
Post by horselady on Feb 15, 2015 12:36:39 GMT
I have had real sticky stifle in a large horse and some minis. and they either outgrow it or it never heals, sticky stifle is when a leg actually locks and one way to unlock it is to back up the horse. and exercise up and down hills so they use that leg,
if she never had that than perhaps he either lifted her leg when she was not ready or he held on and she pulled it and it got twisted. or again from playing outside. As min said either bute and linement or just wait it out. and never have a farrier lift up and out to the side it puts pressure on the stifle and they just can not stand up properly. either the hoof goes under them or straight back, hope she is ok.
|
|
Terry
Junior Member
Central Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,466
|
Post by Terry on Feb 16, 2015 16:26:57 GMT
Thanks for the info, ladies. I really appreciate it!
I'm sure we'll probably never know whether this is an issue she had when we got her, or if she slipped running around, or whatever. I guess it doesn't really matter how or when it happened, but at least now I know about it so I can keep an eye on it. She's being very guarded about that area again and she's not letting me get close enough to feel for heat or swelling, so I went ahead and started her on some Bute in hopes that it will help. If/when she will let me get close enough, I'll try rubbing some liniment on it. Do you think it would help if I gave her a joint supplement too?
Poor little thing, every time I start making some real progress with getting her to trust, something pops up that causes her to be fearful again. It just breaks my heart. First it was the infected open sores on her jaw that needed tending and the infection that was causing her goopy eyes that we had to give her antibiotics for. She fought taking those oral antibiotics like her life depended on it until I figured out that she would happily eat it up if I put it in grain. Fortunately she enjoyed the warm compresses for her sores, and she didn't mind me spraying them with Vetericyn, so she and I started bonding while I took care of that. Over time she had stopped trying to run away from me every time I came near, and now she happily sticks her nose right into her halter when I ask, and when I put my arm around her neck, she snuggles her head against my leg. Turns out that, when she's not afraid, she's really a sweet little cuddlebug! Then this stifle issue popped up and now she's fearful again. I'm not giving up on her, though. My granddaughters love her, she's wonderful with them, and I've grown pretty darn fond of her myself.  As long as it's cold out, I'm not doing much of anything with her except letting her continue to settle in and enjoy being a pony, so she can rest that stifle as much as she needs. Once warmer weather arrives we'll re-evaluate and see if she is ready for some groundwork and go from there.
|
|
mingiz
Junior Member
Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 3,320
|
Post by mingiz on Feb 17, 2015 2:49:59 GMT
Give her time she will reconnect with you. She isn't going to do anything that will hurt her and walking up and down your field will help it get stronger. It would be like you pulling a ham string It hurts!!! If her stifle is weak don't do circles. Just make her go up and down hills or step over poles to strengthen it. If it happens to pop out of joint. Try backing her up. That usually pops it back in. You may have to force her to back up.
|
|
hugs
Junior Member
Posts: 2,647
|
Post by hugs on Feb 17, 2015 5:25:49 GMT
Give her time she will reconnect with you. She isn't going to do anything that will hurt her and walking up and down your field will help it get stronger. It would be like you pulling a ham string It hurts!!! If her stifle is weak don't do circles. Just make her go up and down hills or step over poles to strengthen it. If it happens to pop out of joint. Try backing her up. That usually pops it back in. You may have to force her to back up. Circles are so boring anyway. So stifle, how would you know if its muscle, nerve or joint issue? Its so perplexing what to actually do about any of this stuff, isn't' it? And "stall rest", always "stall rest", I think that's just what they say when there isn't anything to do. So what would a physical therapist do for a human being with a hip issue? Strengthen the muscles, stretch them slowly and gently and like The Ming says, walk. Walk and scratches I'm sure. |
|
|
|
Post by horselover4life on Feb 17, 2015 11:15:59 GMT
Well, if you really want to spend money...call the vet and get the ultrasound.
It would tell you exactly what "thingy" Pocket injured and did to herself.
Then you could get the official, "Stall rest"....
You know soft tissue injury always takes more time to heal than any of us want to give it...
Then, after some healing time work on conditioning her as others suggested so the other surrounding tissues offer better support to the weakened one...
That is what physical therapy would do for you....
I had a horse with a bad stifle...when I first got him he would snap and pop in and out of place..
Once I had him a while and we rode, developing muscle strength and stamina..the problem hardly ever came around.
He was so good, when it happened he would stop forward motion, go back 2-3 steps and then off we went again...
In my "young" innocence I didn't know what it was, only that he would have a issue.
We just learned together what worked best for him, learned to compensate and be forgiving of each others issues... 
|
|
mingiz
Junior Member
Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 3,320
|
Post by mingiz on Feb 17, 2015 14:07:07 GMT
The popping of the stifle is actually one of the ligaments of the knee cap catches over the inner ridge of the femur and causes the hind leg to be locked in extension. This is called Gonitis which does not denote a specific diagnosis. Joint blocks and arthroscopy can assist in determining the cause of the stifle joint swelling. You can have xrays done to make sure there aren't any bone fractures. Most horse with stifle injuries develop arthritis.
I had a 2yr filly that popped her stifle out a lot. She was lazy and had no muscle tone. I ended up taking her to the vet and we did injections into the stifle. I ended up having to do the injections twice. After that and some exercising she grew out of it and never had any other issues with it.
|
|
|
|
Post by horselover4life on Feb 17, 2015 14:17:23 GMT
Ming...
Do you remember blistering the stifle area or having that ligament surgically cut?
It was a long time ago but remember some horses I cared for having these things done so they could be "painfree" and be ridden, especially in competition.
I know you worked Standardbreds {didn't you?}...didn't they blister them here for this?
Swear I remember seeing as a kid a farm/training place with horses in various stages of treatment...
It was actually these guys I would go "visit" as a kid out riding that explained what to do to help my horse and why it would help him...no vet or medically necessary treatment done...
|
|
mingiz
Junior Member
Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 3,320
|
Post by mingiz on Feb 17, 2015 14:26:25 GMT
The injection the vet did was kind of like a blister. When racing Standardbreds we never had stifle injuries. There were more front leg injuries. Bowed tendons mainly. And yes we blistered them.
I know people that have had the ligament cut but I would never do that unless it was a last resort. The main cause of the stifle popping is weakness in the muscle. If caught soon enough and with the conditioning they usually grow out of it. Rawhide is an example of that. His would pop out if he moved wrong. Usually always in the stall. Out in the field he never popped it. After we started building up his muscles. It has never popped since.
|
|
|
|
Post by diamondgirl on Feb 17, 2015 17:01:28 GMT
I'm sorry. What is blistering?
|
|
|
|
Post by horselover4life on Feb 17, 2015 18:36:40 GMT
There are several kinds of blistering, one from a injection and another from applying a "irritant" to the skin {internal vs. external}
Having a ointment or painting on a substance causes irritation and inflammation. That inflammation increases{supposed to} the blood flow to the injury site, helping the healing process to be quicker.
It is not for the faint of heart or without knowing what you are doing nor vets guidance and recommendation.
Done incorrectly it can cause more harm than good and actually prolong the healing process.
For some horses it is painful procedure, for others it does not bother them at all.
It is controversial by many to use this as it can/does cause pain if done incorrectly.
If done by someone who knows what they are doing...it works.
There is a process that must be followed and a precise follow-up care to the animal to reduce risks of infection from the irritant on the skin or additional problems from occurring.
I won't go into the how it is done externally..to many can read and try, accomplishing nothing but possibly hurting their horse..to me a no-no! wag finger
Internal blistering...done only by a knowledgeable vet!
There are other "things" that can be done before blistering....exercise, and rest are some of them I would try first, not necessarily in that order I wrote.
|
|
Terry
Junior Member
Central Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,466
|
Post by Terry on Feb 18, 2015 0:46:59 GMT
I just wanted to give you guys an update. I've been giving Pocket some bute, and she's already showing marked improvement. She's moving around more and just acts like she feels better. 
As far as rest goes, I'm not putting her on stall rest, I'm just not working her (too cold right now anyway). She's out in the paddock with Sis and Zena during the day, and she can move around as much or as little as she is comfortable doing, and then they are all 3 in their stalls for the night. If I tried to put her on total stall rest, I think she'd go bat sh*t crazy! 
As for having her go up and down hills to strengthen it, since our property is nothing but hills, that shouldn't be a problem.
Thanks again for the advice! |
|
mingiz
Junior Member
Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 3,320
|
Post by mingiz on Feb 18, 2015 1:10:24 GMT
Good Glad to hear it. Yes your fields are just what she needs to regain strength in her stifle. Stall rest is only for extreme cases and she is better out moving around.. |
|
|
|
Post by horselady on Feb 18, 2015 1:50:22 GMT
Glad to hear Pocket is doing ok. and just use your judgment as to what you need to do. as for blistering. i had two tbs for winter layover last year. two different owners. each one handed me a bottle of liquid. i thought it was vitamins for the horses. mind you these people knew each other and were from the same track so i assumed this was normal. BUT NO. this stuff was blistering liquid. they wanted me to put this crap on the front legs. wrap the legs than leave it on for days. >:(What were they thinking. that i would put this stuff on and actually have the skin and hair come off and i would wash the site and keep it clean from infection.  I DO NOT THINK SO>>>>> i dumped the stuff out in the woods a when they asked i told them that i do not blister horses legs and if they wanted that done to remove them from my facility. come spring they left thank goodness. |
|
|
|
Post by horselover4life on Feb 18, 2015 2:31:10 GMT
Glad Pocket is feeling better.
Hopefully, only a mild strain and not a stifle injury.
Blistering is a last chance before making some tough decisions...
As for handing a bottle of blistering solution to you HL, expecting you to administer and take on the care involved....what were they thinking? 
A R&R facility, fields for horses to be horses in, grass and rolling hills, streams....they were nuts to even consider you doing such a thing. 
If they had racehorses, then their trainer should of been overseeing such a "treatment" for the ailment.
Glad for you they left quickly...
|
|
mingiz
Junior Member
Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 3,320
|
Post by mingiz on Feb 18, 2015 2:32:07 GMT
Yes blistering isn't pretty at all. I hated doing it. The STB barn I worked at used DMSO and Iodine..then we would put saran wrap and the leg cotton and then wrap it. I hated it. It stunk on top of it and DSMO isn't something you want getting on your system through your skin.
|
|
|
|
Post by diamondgirl on Feb 19, 2015 1:29:55 GMT
I try not to form an opinion about something, especially when I know so little about it, but I am sorry, I couldn't help myself. I just can't believe this is done in the best interest of the horse. It might be quicker, and I agree with healing, with increasing blood flow, but there must be a better way, than hurting the horse. Sorry. JMO.
|
|
|
|
Post by horselady on Feb 19, 2015 2:06:04 GMT
You are right DG BUT these people wanted results to toughen up the lower legs and they wanted it fast. needless to say these horses were less than 4 years old and been thru so much in their young life it makes my skin crawl. no way no how was i going to do that on my farm.
so pocket will get rest and aspirin and in the future have your farrier not bring the leg sideways have him bring it behind her and keep the leg lower than her hock. and even when picking out her hooves try just bringing the leg up easy.
|
|
mingiz
Junior Member
Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 3,320
|
Post by mingiz on Feb 19, 2015 3:02:54 GMT
For lower leg strains. I usually use a liniment then wrap a cotton wrap over that then saran wrap over the cotton wraps then put the leg wrap on. It helps and creates a sweat type treatment and helps in getting the blood flowing.It works well with tendon pulls.
|
|
As long as it's cold out, I'm not doing much of anything with her except letting her continue to settle in and enjoy being a pony, so she can rest that stifle as much as she needs. Once warmer weather arrives we'll re-evaluate and see if she is ready for some groundwork and go from there.
I DO NOT THINK SO>>>>> i dumped the stuff out in the woods a when they asked i told them that i do not blister horses legs and if they wanted that done to remove them from my facility.
