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Post by horselover4life on Sept 21, 2014 11:07:48 GMT
Well, my back...twisted it last night so no riding this morning... but we will do a saddle-up {English} and lunging for some exercise. Will try that mullen mouth. See if he is at all quieter with his face. Trainer is coming this morning around 8:00 before it gets hot. Horse is fed and brushed clean already {done at 5:30am}....eating breakfast and passing some time before tacked up.
Trainer is great about checking those things nhg...I will ask her to please do it and teach me how. I never used a chiro in all the years of riding I've done....never had issues that needed it so never learned. This time....this horse.... grasping at straws....
Trainer is also going to re-check my saddle fit. Now that the horse has put on the weight he was lacking, saddle may not fit as great as it had. She thinks the cinch was not tight when it slipped....she looked at me and said, "You know the rule before getting up!" I do, I do and I did check! Didn't cross my mind though to tighten it once astride and moving. We are going to use my saddle today, but check the fit of the western also. She knows about the "side-step dance" as she calls it and my undignified grab to stay on. She is much stronger a rider and a much better rider than I...we shall see what occurs when horsey-dear doesn't get away with his nonsense so easily. She knows so she will be waiting for him to pull his nonsense. She thinks this may have been his way to get rid of the abusive rider....now a habit. He is smart so once he knows his number is found out...should stop {I hope}.
I'll let you know how it goes later today....out to the barn in 10 minutes so we are ready when she arrives. smileys-party-370729...the fun is about to begin!
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Post by horselover4life on Sept 21, 2014 14:30:30 GMT
OK...SUCCESS!!
Saddles fit...my English is great, no problems. Whew... Western...well once we used a thinner pad much of the issue is resolved.. That and {ahem..} a tighter cinch. wag finger you all told me!! We adjusted it better balanced once we took out some padding. Not a 100% perfect and it won't be terrific till he muscles up more, but it sure is better. Once he is better muscled, if issues still, then we will address it.... it is not hurting him though.
Mouth...work in progress. She checked the poll. He is fine she said... He is reactive in defense of being struck...so more work and trust needed yet. Time and quiet, not hurtful handling needed. His teeth, fine. No sharp wolf or anything. Will need his teeth done and will be done when the vet comes back for fall shots soon for us. He does have scarring on his tongue from a bad bit and very harsh hands. She thinks it was possibly a rusty, real rust on a bit not the "rust" effect some types of mouthpiece develop. He has some scarring on his "bars" {?} where he had sores. The slot where the bit sits softly he has discolored skin. So...she has a Dr.Cooks bitless she is going to bring me and we will try that. She agrees though that he must accept a bit quietly in time again. For now, he has some allowance as he relearns trust and learns we really won't hurt him... I will lunge him for now in his halter so no uneven pressure to his sore mouth. He is also reactive more to one-side than the other...something she thinks may be because he endured more punishment one side than the other...defense mode. So I need to work that sied more...wonderful, he hates that direction {now I do too!} He tried to ditch her and was very surprised when he was caught in the process and made to work but not be beat. She got him to drop his head and relax for a longer period of time than I can. She pushed harder with her seat and less with her legs till he figured out he wasn't going to get leg beat...then she corrected her aids. We both now know this horse is trained, really trained. Once he figured out he wasn't going to endure pain...he worked so beautifully, willingly and lord was he pretty to watch. I will never be the caliber of rider she is...she makes it look so simple and easy, elegant. This horse can go low and extend so pretty, he has the float look to him...arch in his neck, back and push from the tush.. rollbacks, side passes, turn or forehand and hindquarters and more things I forgot they did. Most of the work was done at a walk or his choice of slow trot... when she asked for speed or extension I caught my breath. I did ride him for 5 minutes...he was happy you could feel it. Now my back is paying for that.
A nice bath when done and a liniment rinse...he was squeaky clean so he went and found his dirt spot and had a great roll...
We're going to do this a few more times so she can work through some of his rough spots for us...and then we are going to work on me and my bad habits...I am going to love this yet regret my sore muscles already!! ow, ow, owwwwww!!! My son, he hasn't learned my bad habits and won't riding under her guidance. No wonder he wins in equitation at his riding level...
I'm off to shower off a ton of stinky sweat and dirt....
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Post by horselover4life on Sept 21, 2014 14:34:35 GMT
Hope you read through the book.... This time it was a good one!!
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nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
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Post by nhg on Sept 21, 2014 15:14:00 GMT
Sounds like it was a good day and, yes, I did read through it all. Did you try the thing I told you to see if he sees okay? I certainly wouldn't trust a trainer to 'check his poll', what could she know? Does she have any medical knowledge? The truth is that most chiros would have no clue, either. They tend to always go for the most obvious point. Pelvis out? Work the pelvis. But they ignore the underlying problem. I worked in the dental field for over twenty five years. If someone has their jaw out of alignment (TMJ) it can eventually affect their whole back and they end up with back pain as the muscle issues travel from one to the next. But if you go to your doctor with back problem that's what they'll focus on, they don't look for the source.
Like I said, I might be totally off base but I'd bet money it's not as simple as a bit issue.
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redzip
Junior Member
Posts: 1,701
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Post by redzip on Sept 21, 2014 15:32:25 GMT
My 2 cents worth, I DID NOT LIKE the Dr. Cooks,., allows horses to evade by lifting their chin and head. I do not see where you can get softness in the head and neck,., too much room for evasion,., Used mine once and never again,., JMO
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Post by diamondgirl on Sept 21, 2014 15:42:29 GMT
I just wanted to mention, perhaps a nice warm bath, with some fragrant bath salts, might help to relax some of those sore muscles, before they have a chance to become really sore muscles.
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Post by horselover4life on Sept 21, 2014 18:59:42 GMT
Let me answer some of your helpful comments and suggestions... My trainer is not a "normal" trainer like the name implies. She has 4 college degrees, masters each I think. I know but a few, yes. She may have more I don't know about....or degrees in classes she took to enrich her knowledge. She has anatomy and physiology in animal sciences, with a dual masters in human studies. Her knowledge in human physiology/anatomy works for us too with my sons physical disabilities. She taught Ag School for...well she is "retired" from that. Her Ag classes were only horse related material taught. She has "friends" that I am slowly learning about that are the who's who in training. They wrote "the manuals" some of them. She has bred, ridden, trained and had as boarders some of the best and most famous horses in the Appaloosa & Arabian breeds. She trained riders and horse, showed...again some of the most recognized names of owners and blood lines of horses. I'm not defending her but trying to let you see why I do trust her and her judgement in what she sees and says. She is no "kid" but a aged and true veteran of the "real" horse world.... When I walk around her home and look through her photo album books of her horses I see her with so many of the worlds best trainers, breeders. Her "friends" are well-known, they are the best breeders of and show stock in the world...She has introduced me to her "friends" when they have popped in to to say hi. She has developed her own "technique" and approach in reaching horses that have problems and issues... I know in our area she has been called asking for a technique to use on a difficult horse...she has found "chiro" issues when others did not...her fingers are so knowledgeable.
I trust her, completely. I have never met someone who has such a depth of knowledge about horses and what makes them tick from conception to death. Details that "who the heck knows something such as that?" ....she does! She has forgotten more than I will ever know I am sure. I have been allowed to use her reference library and someday will inherit her books when she passes I am told.. I have never seen so many books, training manuals "some she co-wrote" in a private collection let alone a library setting. She has reference materials vets call and ask her to look up things for them when they are out in the field and stumped.
She is not just a trainer, she is a trainer.
Hope that made sense.
I also am not a fan of Dr. Cook. I don't like the loss of communication I can transmit and receive via that leather rein and bit...the hum of communication that travels back and forth is missing for me in a bitless. Right now though till we figure out this mouth issue it is safer and something to try than forcing a bit. She is searching for some other equipment she has that she will bring with her the next time or two...think side-pull was one of them and maybe a bosal...I am unsure. She has a "bit box" that I love to poke through and ask a million questions of what is this, why do you use that, what does this do...isn't this cruel? That last one nearly got me with a look...she is searching through that to see if she has something we can use to help get past this spot in time.
Again, a book... ...sheesh! sorry...
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nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
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Post by nhg on Sept 21, 2014 22:32:44 GMT
Ah, I've got it. I think you've mentioned that about her before and I forgot. I thought you were struggling and could use some suggestions. I didn't realize you already have the best.
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Post by horselover4life on Sept 21, 2014 22:50:04 GMT
Hey...I am always open to help and suggestions.
No one gets it every single time and you all did help me with your advice more than you know.
I only sought out the trainer the other day when I was distraught thinking it me and I was the problem causer...she has more equipment of different kinds than I do so she could bring her "arsenal" of stuff with her to till we figure this out.
You all gave excellent advice and I took it to heart and applied a lot of it that I had equipment to try it with. And I looked for sharp teeth or remnants, mouth issues, problem with his sight...his poll was out of my league in doing on my own...bloody nose time if he snapped his head in defense. Please,... don't ever think I am ungrateful or appreciative...farthest from the truth that is.
I do though when I can't get it, call in the reinforcements... and they have a lot of clout and knowledge behind them. I am blessed to know such individuals...but trust me, they sometimes have called me when at their wits end for new eyes to see and tell what they saw...
I in turn rely on you all to help guide me with your experiences and knowledge when I am stumped as I have been and still am...
The trainer got a response better, not me!! So...the issue still is there, we need to figure out how come when she watched me today and I did nothing to antagonize the horse yet his defenses went up...as did his head and tossing. He was better, but far from right...
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Post by lorddaxter on Sept 22, 2014 12:29:00 GMT
Horses do your head in sometimes don't they"
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Post by horselover4life on Oct 11, 2014 23:34:27 GMT
I thought I would give a update on what we are working on...
So...some time has gone by and with that some riding and more trial and error of tack. So....I went back to trying my thick saddle pad and nearly went off again with a sliding saddle. ... Put on that thinner blanket, and the saddle fits beautiful on his back. I ordered a 2" smaller cinch as mine I feel is just to large with how high it adjusts to. I see no one with tie rings nearly touching the saddle skirts....
Oh...and against all odds and trying everything everyone mentioned... I broke down and bought a Dr. Cook Bitless Bridle....headstall only. I have reins...so many sets of reins. I want a bit, I want a bit....and the horse hates it. He near went nuts with a hack and I wasn't even astride...just freaked. Someone did something with that piece of equipment, something sinister to him. That plank neck of his didn't agree with side-pulls, bosals or anything else we {trainer & I} came up with. He fought against everything.... Her arsenal of equipment had a bitless and he loved it it seems. He moves out, pricked his ears forward & dropped his head to perfect level for his frame, is happy and stopped fussing and being a grump.... Did I say I want a bit....I have "0" confidence with this bitless thing. A new learning experience for me... I feel like a newbie astride with nerves. My son was walking with me the other night for "comfort"....I don't know this horse astride well enough to trust him and I surely don't trust myself with how out of shape I am...
A sight we must be...Western saddle all decked out with silver, bitless bridle, me with a crash helmet on securely fastened, beige breeches and paddock boots...and a 10' lead shank attached as a lead line being held by my kid...add a stomach in knots with nerves. ....what a sight to see.. Why when I rode as a kid with halter and shank am I such a chicken...I know, I know... I grew up. I get hurt and I do break...sucks sometimes being a adult.
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Oct 12, 2014 0:47:04 GMT
I'm sure you will get more comfortable as you use the bridle more. Do a lot of stopping so you both know that you can.
Yep, kids have no sense of self-preservation. Somewhere along the way, we realize we are mortal and need to be more careful! Nothing wrong with that.
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Post by horselady on Oct 13, 2014 0:20:20 GMT
I would really like to see a photo of you on Chance in that get up with your son walking you around. lol horses are trial and error. and you are a lucky person to have a trainer/friend that has all that knowledge to help you. Chance is just hurt. and yes they do have flash back. kick a certain way or bop them in the teeth or mouth with a bit and it is reactive. you are going about it correctly. slow. easy trial and more trial. by spring shows he will be more than ready and so will your son.
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Post by lorddaxter on Oct 13, 2014 12:19:08 GMT
You will get used to it, lots of transitions will help you gain confidence, I just ordered an aerowear ladies style body protector, not getting any younger and I really felt that last fall, Im hoping to try ira in a german hackamore sometime soon, fingers crossed he likes it, those Dr Cooks are pricey!
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Post by horselover4life on Oct 13, 2014 13:23:26 GMT
I bought a nylon Dr. Cook headstall. Leather down here molds so easily and stitching...well you have to be so careful. Nylon was/is forgiving and cheaper.
I bought it a Valley Vet Supply. They had a great price and a "discount" on top so it was not terrible. $69.95 for the headstall and a discount of $13.99 so...$55.96 with free shipping and no sales tax. I thought that was a good deal.
I have one of those German things {had to look up a picture}... boy did my Chance not like that at all...what we had tried and he freaked, literally freaked out and trembled...so no go for me with that!! I know it can be strong, and obviously it was used harshly on him. I can only imagine the pain he had endured at someone hands numerous times...
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