Terry
Junior Member
Central Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,466 
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Post by Terry on Sept 26, 2014 20:56:01 GMT
First off, let me apologize in advance for the book I'm about to write. I don't know how else to explain this so you can hopefully understand.
Today is beautiful, and it's my day off, so I went outside and spent time doing ground work with both of my horses in the round pen. We did some light lunging, worked with the cowboy curtain, the mega jolly ball, the umbrella, backing, etc. They both did beautifully! I worked with Zena first, and then I worked with Sis, because after I finished with ground work with Sis, my plan was to ride her. After I spent time doing ground work with Sis, I took her in the barn and saddled her up. Everything went smoothly. After this is where things went south quickly...
When I ride, I normally just ride in the round pen and in the pasture and she always does great. I did ride Sis down our little dead end street once, but that was a long time ago. She was very nervous going down the street that day (and since I was dealing with a serious lack of confidence at the time, it made me nervous too), but ultimately she did fine that day. Her nervousness plus my lack of confidence made me not do it again, though.
Now I have much more confidence, and I decided that I wanted to ride her in our large front/side yard today, and if that went well, then I was going to ride her down the street again. I led her out of the barn, but did not put her bridle on, just her saddle. Since this was the first time for this for both of us in a very long time I thought it might be best to just lead her around in the front/side yard first. The farther we walked from the barn, the more nervous she got, but she was behaving herself, just tense. We stopped to investigate the truck - no horse eating monsters there. We kept walking across the driveway and into the large front/side yard. Meanwhile Zena is running around in the paddock and the pasture screaming her fool head off for Sis! The more Zena called out and the farther away we got, the more Sis started acting up. I was glad I kept her in a halter and lead and just walked her out there, because I had to lunge the crap out of her repeatedly! At one point she tried to pull away from me (thank goodness for long lead ropes). I made her keep walking up and down the yard between the house and the road with me, and every time she acted up, I lunged her. During all this the mailman came down the driveway with a package for me. He got quite a show! I'll bet he thought the rodeo was in town! Sis didn't seem to care about the mailman's car, or it's flashing lights, but she was already so worked up I'm not sure she even noticed. She eventually started calming down very slightly, but I took it and started leading her back towards the barn, but we still had to lunge several times on our way back.
I was still determined to get a ride in today (she wasn't going to cheat me out of that, even if it was just a short one), so I took her back into the pasture, but in a smaller section that Zena was fenced out of. Once Sis was back in the pasture, Zena quit screaming and running. Sis was still worked up, so I had to lunge her a couple more times before I put her bridle on, but I did eventually get her bridle on and I got a short ride, and she behaved perfectly during our ride. She was a hot, sweaty mess by the time we were done (and so was I).
My question is, did I handle this the right way? Should I have done something different?
Here is a picture of our property in case a visual is helpful. 
I led her from the barn, in front of the house, across the driveway, and into the large triangle shaped part of the yard that runs along the right side of the driveway.
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Post by horselover4life on Sept 26, 2014 21:50:38 GMT
My gut says she is herd bound and buddy sour. You know that already.
I deal with the same thing with our gelding. Don't tell me they don't get as attached as mares to each other.... 
I insist they do as I want...if they refuse they work harder and harder.... I push their buttons and I get after them. 
I am the leader and as leader they follow my direction...
I don't know who said it.....that saying about making the right thing easy and the wrong thing harder...I do follow that... 
It isn't easy and it isn't a pleasant ride but we ride through it.
You must get her to pay attention to you not the "nut" running and screaming at the barn.
Is there a way you can safely lock the other one in a stall and slam the door...she may still hear her muffled sounds but can't see her so it might make it a little better.
It is a herd separation thing...every horse is different in how attached they get.
Looking forward to hearing how others deal with such a situation....hopefully there is a secret we can both use once we know it and have better riding partners.
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Terry
Junior Member
Central Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,466
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Post by Terry on Sept 26, 2014 22:12:07 GMT
I agree that what caused the meltdown is a buddy sour issue. I just want to make sure I'm on the right track as far as how I worked through it today.
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Post by horselover4life on Sept 26, 2014 22:23:44 GMT
I think you are....you need to show you are "Boss Mare"....
Which ever horse you are handling must give to you respect and give their attention to you...
How you get that respect and keep that attention I think will depend some upon the animal and your relationship/leadership with it...
A work in progress. As you get more confident in your abilities, that horse will have to adjust their attitude toward you....keep at it.
I think a never-ending work in progress for all of us!!
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nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
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Post by nhg on Sept 26, 2014 22:25:53 GMT
I think you did the right thing. Keep doing it, it should get better.
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Post by horselover4life on Sept 26, 2014 22:33:37 GMT
nhg.............. LOVE the new avatar!!!  |
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Post by diamondgirl on Sept 26, 2014 22:59:32 GMT
I was having a lot of trouble with Diamond, leaving the barn, when I boarded. I finally decided to work her hard at the barn in the round pen, then put her bridle on over her halter, and ride her to the road. When I finally got her to the end of the drive way ( we aren't talking very far, because I lack confidence too) I took off her bridle and let her eat the yummy grass in the ditch. After a while I put her bridle back on, and we rode back down the drive way to the barn, where I worked her again, in the round pen. There wasn't even any horses calling her back, she just didn't want to leave her friends.
I was lucky, because I was able to get right out there after work, and work with her every day for at least a month. Each day we went to a different spot a little further away. Some days it was hard because she would get a little spook, from a bird or small animal, and she would give me a little trouble, walking off (actually sometimes trotting) when I was trying to get back on. A few times I had to walk her to a steeper part of the ditch so I could get on really fast, before she would try to start for home, but that was ok, because when we would get back to the barn, we had something to work on. Sometimes standing still is very hard work for a horse.
You know I have read books, watched DVDs and listened to trainers. I just can't seem to be able to pull what I learned, out of my hat and use it, when my horse does something she shouldn't. Someone on the other place had suggested, working hard at the barn, taking their horse away, and doing something pleasant, then going back to the barn, and working hard again, so I gave it a try. It seemed simple enough, I thought even I could remember it.
I think you did great. Unfortunately, Sis didn't hold up her end of the bargain so her time away from Zena could have been pleasant, but it wasn't. You worked her, and rode her, when she get back to the barn. That is what I would have tried to do.
I don't know. I just wonder if Sis would benefit from really nice pleasant times with you, while away from Zena. Once she is calm and trustworthy while away, add in some lite riding in the yard. Or I could be full of you know what. 
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Post by diamondgirl on Sept 26, 2014 23:04:00 GMT
Oh and just wanted to say I really like the overhead picture of your farm.  |
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nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
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Post by nhg on Sept 26, 2014 23:15:11 GMT
I agree DG! It looks like an acreage community. That's how I'd like to live. We lived in something similar when I was a young teenager and I miss it.
I wanted to add, Terry, that anything you do that makes her get out of her comfort zone but still keeps you safe is okay. Zena screaming certainly doesn't help. Even a horse that's not buddy sour can get antsy if their friend is screaming for them. Just take it slow and stay safe.
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Terry
Junior Member
Central Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,466
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Post by Terry on Sept 27, 2014 14:17:14 GMT
Thanks everyone! I was prepared for her to be a bit nervous, and I can deal with that. If she was too nervous, then I was just going to lead her out there, let her nibble a bit, and then bring her back and ride her in the pasture. What I wasn't prepared for was Zena screaming and running around like an idiot, which then caused a chain reaction of Sis freaking out. I think I will try again, but instead of trying to take her all the way to the road, I'll just take her into the front yard (at that point she was nervous but still behaving), let her graze with me a bit, and then take her back, and we'll gradually try to increase the distance and her confidence before I ever consider riding her out there.
We normally do work hard near the barn, and then I ride her away into the pasture, which is usually a nice, calm, quiet ride. She's always very good for all of that. Yesterday I just took her (and apparently Zena, too) much too far out of their comfort zones. Like I said, in the hopes of avoiding a repeat of what I went through yesterday, I'll just keep taking Sis out of her comfort zone, but I'll do it in smaller increments at a time until we can work up to getting to the road and beyond.
NHG, yes, we do live in an acreage community. It's very nice out here. The smallest lots have 2 acres. Our lot is one of the larger lots, at 3.3 acres, and then the lot next to mine is a little over 4 acres, but that lot is all on a big hill and pretty much unusable for anything. Our lot is hilly, but it's useable.
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Post by horselover4life on Sept 27, 2014 15:21:08 GMT
Terry...consider taking Zena out to do some nibbling.
See how Sis does...if she reacts in the same manner.
If Sis is quiet that will tell you that Zena is the culprit of much distress for the horse and you. Possibly the catalyst to your issue.
I personally do not allow any horses to call to each other when being handled by me...usually a gruff sounding "QUIT" is enough to dissuade them and regain their attention to me.
Do be careful, indeed pushing which ever horse you are handling just a little bit more each time you work with them past their comfort zone, keeping their attention on the task at hand works and will show results.
Enjoy your beautiful weather.
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Terry
Junior Member
Central Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,466
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Post by Terry on Sept 27, 2014 15:57:32 GMT
I absolutely believe Zena is the problem here. I've taken Zena away from Sis before (granted, not this far, but still...) and Sis usually could care less. This time Zena was apparently just too riled up and too loud for Sis to ignore. Although Zena is the alpha of the two horses, lately they've been acting very independent from each other (not grazing side by side, but instead in opposite sides of the pasture with trees blocking their view of each other), and they've both been fine with that. It appears, though, that since I took Sis outside of the pasture and completely out of Zena's control, that was more than either of them could bear. Now, after yesterday's incident, they are back to grazing side-by-side. 
Later today I'll try taking Sis out of the pasture again, but not as far, and we'll see how things go. Hubby even suggested that he could take Zena in the round pen and work her while I take Sis away, but that idea scares me a bit, since hubby has only attempted lunging twice, and both times it was very controlled and under the watchful eye of the trainer. I'm worried about how badly things could go in there if/when she starts acting up again, and he's never dealt with anything like that.
I'll let you guys know how things go.
ETA: I forgot to say, despite Sis misbehaving when she was with me yesterday, she did not call back to Zena even once.
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mingiz
Junior Member
Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 3,320
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Post by mingiz on Sept 27, 2014 18:11:06 GMT
Yep herd sour.. Just keep doing what your doing. JR is a tad herd sour. He will jig and do his little rear and everything to make me turn around. I just keep making him go forward. After a while he gives in. |
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Post by Shelly on Sept 27, 2014 18:43:16 GMT
I wonder if it would be beneficial to do your "ground work" portion of your training in the front area?
I feel as if you are already on the right track, hopefully with lots of repetition they will slowly realize that they will be reunited after.
Are they the only two in the heard?
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Post by horselady on Sept 27, 2014 18:48:54 GMT
You are doing great with the progress of sis, is there a possibility of building a round pen or temporary fenced area in that portion of the yard. so zena could see sis and sis could see zena. and yes you need to assert your leadership of both. when sis is in the pen work with zena to get her quiet and focus on you and not where her friend is
sometimes the one doing to calling first is the one that needs to know when to speak and when not to.
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redzip
Junior Member
Posts: 1,701
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Post by redzip on Sept 28, 2014 1:35:29 GMT
^^I agree with HL,., Separate them into separate paddocks with electric fence^^
They will learn to become more independent of each other, and that should ultimately help with the herd bound situation.
Otherwise, I fear, every time you take Sis from Zena, the 'argument' ensues.
If they begin to live 'separate lives', they will become less anxious, etc. over time.
I did it with Red and Zippy,., had too,., and it worked.
JMO
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Terry
Junior Member
Central Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,466
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Post by Terry on Sept 28, 2014 3:02:31 GMT
I spent most of the day going to tack stores and going riding with a friend of mine today (on her horses). I had lots of fun! After I got home I did go ahead and pull Sis out of the pasture and just took her into the side yard near the barn. Zena started calling to her almost immediately, but she wasn't as frantic about it as she was yesterday, and she quit after a little bit. Sis was nervous and refused to even nibble at the grass, so I just stood with her and gave her pets and scratches. After a little while I led her back into the part of the pasture that Zena is fenced out of. Zena called a couple times, but I just led Sis around (trying to keep her focused on me), petted and scratched her some more, and then led her back in with Zena. Bottom line, we stepped out of their comfort zone a little bit, and Sis didn't have a blow up. Over time I'll just gradually try to push it a little farther.
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Post by diamondgirl on Sept 28, 2014 3:26:50 GMT
It sounds like you did great.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
I would have said more, but as you see I have help. cat1
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nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
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Post by nhg on Sept 28, 2014 4:49:32 GMT
DG if you don't stop letting your cat post on here I'm going to let my dogs post on here. wag finger And they have potty mouths.
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Post by diamondgirl on Sept 28, 2014 12:44:28 GMT
Oh nhg, you totally cracked me up.  |
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