nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429 
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Post by nhg on Sept 14, 2014 14:13:47 GMT
My friend says that one of her horses was trained to 'spur stop'. She was told this and we have no idea what it means. It sounds like an oxymoron to me. Has anyone heard of this?
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nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
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Post by nhg on Sept 14, 2014 15:39:52 GMT
I googled it. I should have just done that to start with. It sounds like it's controversial and there are differing opinions even on how it's done.
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Post by diamondgirl on Sept 14, 2014 15:41:31 GMT
I also had a friend whose horse was taught a spur stop. I asked her exactly how was that accomplished, but she was evasive with her answer. She loved to show, but I don't think she liked all the aspects of the training involved in it. All I know is she started out the season with a beautiful, paint, well broke mare, and finished up with a poor little mare who had to be retired, because severe back pain, and lameness. She gave her to place that offered equine therapy.
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Post by horselady on Sept 14, 2014 17:00:08 GMT
Sounds like digging in your heels (spurs) and hang on to me. perhaps share the link sounds like something we should be aware of.
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Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
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Post by Lipizzan on Sept 15, 2014 8:02:49 GMT
Just a mention of a spurs give me chills. I HATE spurs. I don't see any good use in them.
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Sept 15, 2014 12:43:46 GMT
I used to work at a WP show barn and one of the trainers that came through taught all the show horses how to spur stop. Basically, the spur is used to teach the horse to collect under itself and round its back. In theory, if you continue to ask for this collection (a steady holding of the spur against the body), all forward movement stops. It is/was used in the WP world so that your hands never moved, especially when asking for a halt. The same technique is used to do downward transitions, you would just release the cue before all movement stopped.
Now, that being said, I for one did not agree with this. And the next trainer that came through the barn (we never seemed to hold on to one for more than a few years), had to go through and UN-teach this in all the horses and re-teach them the more correct/accepted methods of stopping/slowing (mostly done by shifting of weight in the saddle and small changes in body position).
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Terry
Junior Member
Central Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,466
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Post by Terry on Sept 16, 2014 12:36:53 GMT
Thanks for explaining the spur stop, MM. I had never heard of that before, and it sounds like something I never want to do. 
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nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
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Post by nhg on Sept 16, 2014 14:36:02 GMT
Apparently the AQHA frowns on it now. But supposedly they frown on peanut rollers yet they still often win so whatever. To me it's like when people teach their kids baby talk. I never did that with my daughter, I always spoke to her like she was older. I think it's pointless to teach a child that a bottle is a baba or a balloon is a boon or things like that and then turn around later and teach them that what they've learned is wrong and they have to learn the proper word. To teach a horse that leg pressure and spurs mean go and then to teach them that spurs mean slow down or stop seems confusing to me.
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Sept 16, 2014 15:13:49 GMT
I was pretty confused by it too since I, and most normal people, were taught that leg pressure meant to move (forward or laterally depending on the aid). Just one of those fads I guess.
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Post by Shelly on Sept 16, 2014 15:40:17 GMT
I would much rather use my seat correctly then confuse the crap out of my horse with a spur. My horse is still trying to figure out leg pressures while backing up lol.
I'm sure some riders are comfortable with this kind of training... definitely not for me tho! I couldn't imagine keeping the spur "on" my horse the whole time I ride. I have used spurs before, the horse I ride in my lessons uses them. But I only use the spur itself maybe once or twice and usually only while jumping (it's how she was trained... and it works really well on her). This is really the first time I have ever used spurs in my life. But I am always careful as to where my heals are and I'm super cautious the whole time I ride with them. I couldn't Imagine the poor horses side after riding with the spurs "on" the whole time.
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Post by horselady on Sept 16, 2014 20:44:57 GMT
We all know that in the horse training world there are some trainers (and i say that loosely) will do anything to get the final result and as long as it looks good in the show ring. until a judge or person or steward is informed of the inhumane methods that are being used than it will continue. and than the method is exposed and it is changed.
we need to continue to speak up to the authorities and those that abuse because the horse can not speak for themselves. >:Dsee the pink bat. well that is what i use to get the trainers attention.
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nhg
Junior Member
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Post by nhg on Sept 16, 2014 23:46:10 GMT
I saw what you posted on FB, HL. Is that what you're thinking about right now? That guy needs to be taken behind the barn and ass whipped, same with the owners. In one of Buck Brannaman's books he talks about an Arabian stallion that was brought to him. The horse had been abused so it would get that 'look' in the show ring. He got it settled down and starting to trust people and then the owner wanted to know how soon they could do whatever it was to him again so he'd get his 'look' back for showing. Heartbreaking.
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hugs
Junior Member
Posts: 2,647
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Post by hugs on Sept 16, 2014 23:56:57 GMT
Just a mention of a spurs give me chills. I HATE spurs. I don't see any good use in them. As with all tools if they're used correctly all is well but people use spurs to punish. And I'm afraid that it has ruined other folks for what could be a very useful tool. You see a spur can be used to cue, not punish and that cue can mean different things depending upon the slightest difference in placement on the horse's side because a spur is small compared to a heel. I've seen such delicate and intricate movements from a horse and rider when the rider was using spurs correctly, its something I'll never forget. When the day comes that I have finesse in my riding, I'd use them, but that is a long way off, not to mention I don't finesse much of anything  |
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Post by diamondgirl on Sept 17, 2014 0:13:27 GMT
I saw what you posted on FB, HL. Is that what you're thinking about right now? That guy needs to be taken behind the barn and ass whipped, same with the owners. In one of Buck Brannaman's books he talks about an Arabian stallion that was brought to him. The horse had been abused so it would get that 'look' in the show ring. He got it settled down and starting to trust people and then the owner wanted to know how soon they could do whatever it was to him again so he'd get his 'look' back for showing. Heartbreaking. I read that too. I was amazed at how heartless people can be. |
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Sept 17, 2014 12:16:34 GMT
Just to clarify, the trainer I knew that taught the spur stop did not beat the horses with the spur. It was a very steady, easy pressure. She certainly didn't want the owners to be spurring their horse to death in the show ring. Still, I don't agree with it (due to the confusion it causes with what the leg aid should mean).
The spur can be an extremely useful tool in the right hands as others have said. Just like a bit is only as severe as the rider's hands make, so too is the spur. I used to ride in them all the time but rarely needed to use them so I just started carrying them on my saddle when I ride. This way, if Mister is acting up and needs a reminder that I am in charge, I can put them on. Otherwise I just use my leg cues and he usually listens to that.
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nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
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Post by nhg on Sept 17, 2014 14:32:50 GMT
My daughter almost always wears spurs but she never jabs the horse. And, yes, you're right MM. The spur stop or when they use it to slow a horse down is used very lightly. I think another sideline that would make it a difficult cue is people like me with short legs. My toes turn out when I ride because that's also how I walk and my legs are so short that my spurs will touch my horse when I don't want them to so he's had to learn to ignore it unless I use an appropriate amount of pressure. If I ride him with spurs he's more responsive but I almost never do. I wear them if I'm showing him, though. My daughter has long legs and is a bit taller than me so they work well for her.
My mom used to tell people that that was the first thing I asked when she was born- does she have long legs? I hate my stump legs. |
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Post by lorddaxter on Sept 17, 2014 14:59:03 GMT
I used to always ride with spurs, I did dressage and it was more about fine tuning and I hated having to kick kick a couple lazy beggars I rode!
Spurs if used correctly are no worse than leg alone.
I thought the spur stop was where they just kinda brought their heels up and dug it in till the horse stopped, I know nothing about western hardly lol!
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hugs
Junior Member
Posts: 2,647
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Post by hugs on Sept 17, 2014 20:06:51 GMT
My mom used to tell people that that was the first thing I asked when she was born- does she have long legs? I hate my stump legs. You hate them and we love them, because they are yours. |
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Post by diamondgirl on Sept 17, 2014 20:29:45 GMT
You all might think I am a weirdo, but I think there is nothing sexier than a bow legged cowboy wearing jeans, boots, a long sleeved plaid shirt, a cowboy hat, and spurs. Woo Hoo! I have a pair of spurs, but I'm afraid to wear them while riding. I like to go slow, and I don't want any miscommunication, on that point. I have worn them around the house, and out walking around the farm. I like the way they sound. I probably should just put little bells on my boots if I want to sound like that though, because I get them tangled up, and have nearly fallen down the stairs a few times.
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hugs
Junior Member
Posts: 2,647
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Post by hugs on Sept 17, 2014 20:43:59 GMT
Not weird at all! I think cowboys are sexy and I just LOVE that jingle-jangle-jingle, too. I admit its one of the reasons I want to learn to ride well.
campfire this icon reminds me of the fart scene in the movie Blazing Saddles, that part isn't so sexy.
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