Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572 
|
Post by Lipizzan on Aug 23, 2014 9:18:24 GMT
Yesterday Aramis had episode with colics, they were quite strong and we had to act immediately, I tried to find a vein to inject him Vetalgin, but I could not find and I had to give him in the muscle on the neck so it took quite a while to start working . If you're wondering why I did not ask the vet how to finde a vein, it is better you if we do not speak about our veterinarians. If you have any advice on where is the best to look for a vein and how to "force" it to jump out I would be grateful.
|
|
|
|
Post by horselady on Aug 23, 2014 11:16:54 GMT
Scary, hope he is ok today.
to find a vein my vet uses the one just around the wind pipe. if you feel a dent that is the main vein to the head. like our jugular.
perhaps shave the site and see it to experiment before you need to do it for emergency purpose.
in an emergency you are nervous and the horse is not that easy to work with.
my vet stabs and draws, than pushes. if she does not find a vein fast she just moves the needle in and out until she finds it. not removing the needle all the way. just poke and pray.
|
|
Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
|
Post by Lipizzan on Aug 23, 2014 11:54:42 GMT
Thank you horselady, it was hard even to lift his skin a little bit so that I can poke the needle, it was so firm. I have experiences with needles because I give my old mare vitamins for artritis regulary in the muscle with the needle. But I just don't know how to find a vein, I won't just experiment know as I know lol  just in case vet decised not to show up on time again, better to try then to lose a horse. That is why I have almost all the meds at home in case of emergency. Our vets have no idea about horses, they really suck, and the good ones are far far away. And he is brand new today, like nothing happened.  |
|
|
|
Post by horselover4life on Aug 23, 2014 12:28:12 GMT
I'm sure you know this Lip....
Be positive if you go for a vein you have "0" air bubbles in that syringe!
"1", it only takes "1" to do horrible damage or death..............
HL...can't you squirt it in the mouth and get a fast response or is that something else I'm thinking of?? 
I was taught to do vein injections when I worked the circuit...NOPE!! 
I leave that for the vet... I can and will do IM and sub-cutaneous but no to vein punctures for me...
I actually prefer to leave the needles to the vet even for vaccinations.
|
|
Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
|
Post by Lipizzan on Aug 23, 2014 12:47:12 GMT
H4L, you have to understand that I live in a completely different world then yours, you have to see this from my point of view. I could left that to a vet yes, but then my horse would be dead right now, because it took one hour to vet to come. I had to react.
|
|
|
|
Post by horselover4life on Aug 23, 2014 13:06:47 GMT
Oh Lip...not criticizing you at all.
I totally agree and understand where you and your comments are coming from...
I was just saying... PLEASE, be VERY careful if you do vein injections. The danger is so much more to the animal.
But yes, in your position I would be probably doing the same thing or digging a hole to bury my beloved animal in....
 ...
|
|
nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
|
Post by nhg on Aug 23, 2014 15:02:06 GMT
I'm glad he's okay now, how scary! I'd be terrified to try to inject into a vein, I can't even do the IM, it freaks me out.
|
|
|
|
Post by diamondgirl on Aug 23, 2014 15:32:31 GMT
Lip I draw blood for a living, but only on humans. I would not try to find the jugular unless I was sure the medication could be injected into an artery or a vein. If it could be given arterial then I would probably just feel for a pulse and try that. In most cases the only difference between an artery and a vein is 5 minutes pressure for an arterial stick. I heard once that vets draw horses from a vein under their tail, but I have never seen it. As far as the air goes, it would take about 20cc to be lethal for a human, so unless horses are a lot different I don't know that a small bubble would be a worry. Of coarse I only remove the blood, and it is very unlikely I would put any air in. I think if I was in your shoes I would use the internet to look up the circulatory system on a horse and use that as a guide. Once you have an idea of where to look, You might even using another horse, and work them awhile to get their blood pumping, then see where the veins pop out on them, then try the same location to find a vein. Unfortunately, the more stress, that is in a situation, the harder it is to locate a vein, and pain seems to make the veins disappear altogether.
I am glad Aramis is feeling better. That must be so scary for you. Have you thought about becoming a Vet yourself? Your beautiful horses deserve the best care possible.
|
|
Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
|
Post by Lipizzan on Aug 23, 2014 15:56:31 GMT
Thank you diamond for great advice. Unfortunately I went in another direction and began to study for farm animals on agricultural faculty. It is similar but it is more focused on the behavior of the anatomical and physiological aspects of animal, breeding as well, and not so much on healing. Because in my country schooling is costly, and the standard is low, it is difficult to pay schooling. Unfortunately my economic situation does not allow me to follow my dreams, and that would be after this to attend veterinary studies.
|
|
nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
|
Post by nhg on Aug 23, 2014 21:08:58 GMT
Here in Alberta, maybe all of Canada, it's harder to get accepted to vet school than it is to medical school.
|
|
mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
|
Post by mistersmom on Aug 24, 2014 0:11:30 GMT
Colic is so scary. And it can be hard, even for the vet, to be able to get the vein if the horse is really dehydrated. The last time Cowboy coliced, I felt so bad as I couldn't give him his banamine while waiting for the vet (it usually take him 30-45 minutes to get here) but even the vet had a hard time when he got here. I was going to write out a long description but then found this great website that describes it very well. I never give anything IV unless under the direction of my vet and then only in an emergency but I understand that circumstances are different where you are. I hope this is helpful for you (and others). www.r-vets.org/IV-Injections.html |
|
|
|
Post by horselady on Aug 24, 2014 0:55:04 GMT
We do understand lipi how you need to act as quickly as you can to help the horses.
in a normal situation. or even after riding as was suggested. feel the dent on the side of the next, that is the main vein.
and if you want practice drawing blood, just a small amount. that way when and if the time comes you will know where it is.
and yes you can put that tranq into the mouth on the gums. it will get absorbed into the blood stream quicker than in the muscle.
and keep the fluids going into colicky horse. even if you have to use a large syriinge and squirt into the mouth. i use vegetable oil or whiskey or both.
|
|
|
|
Post by Shelly on Aug 25, 2014 17:12:30 GMT
Alrighty! IV injections, something i know a little bit about Most inter venous injections are given throughout the jugular, it's the easiest and most prominent vein. The jugular is situated on the lower part of the horses neck, you will see a dip in the neck. If you want to make the jugular "pop out" just put your thumb at the bottom of the jugular (closer to the horses body) and compress the vein. with your other hand if you tap higher up on the vein you will feel it jump slightly under your thumb that your using as a compress (it's my way of making sure I am 100% on top of the vein) When giving an injection, keep your needle vertical with the horses body (keep the sharp end of your needle up). When you pierce the needle throughout the skin, do a quick little jab (they are less likely to react versus poking them slowly). When you think you are in the vein, pull back on your syringe to make sure you are 100% in the vein. If you have blood coming into the syringe then your in the right spot. Proceed to give half the medication, pull back again to see if you have a blood return and inject the rest. I Always like to double check I'm in the vein because with horses possibly moving or even myself moving while injecting it is possible that the needle moves out of place easily. Generally as a rule of thumb, after injecting 5mls you should check your placement. Just a small visual of an IV injection  Also, someone mentioned practicing pulling blood, definitely a good idea! other tips, always read your meds, make sure they can be given IV, make sure your dosing is appropriate for an IV injection (since the reaction time is so much faster you may need less, depending on the medication) and make sure the area your injecting is clean. Best of luck |
|
|
|
Post by lorddaxter on Aug 25, 2014 17:18:37 GMT
I'm not much help but just want to add a couple things a vet told me, if you turn the head towards you a bit it relaxes the muscles and it's easier to find, he did tell me though it's easier to find it in the chest, I've never needed to do it just passing it on!
|
|
Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
|
Post by Lipizzan on Aug 25, 2014 17:41:16 GMT
Shelly you really helped. That is a good description. Thank you so much. And ld thank you also. Don't know what I would do without you guys.
|
|
|
|
Post by Shelly on Aug 27, 2014 2:53:37 GMT
No problem It's a good still to know if your in an emergency. Glad I can help  |
|
just in case vet decised not to show up on time again, better to try then to lose a horse. That is why I have almost all the meds at home in case of emergency. Our vets have no idea about horses, they really suck, and the good ones are far far away.
...
