mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749 
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Post by mistersmom on May 19, 2014 16:00:22 GMT
So my farrier and I are going to get aggressive in treating Mister's white line disease. I feel so bad when I look at how bad his hooves are. Has anyone tried White Lightning (or any other white line treatment products)? My farrier mentioned treating the hooves daily with a 1:9 bleach solution. What I read about the White Lightning, it sounds even better than just bleach but is it worth the money? I know there are tons of threads about this on the other place and I will dig through those but just thought I would ask our great and knowledgeable HA members.  |
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Post by horselover4life on May 19, 2014 22:36:46 GMT
Here comes a novel...hope some of the information helps...
I know "white line" as "seedy toe"...same thing, different name and fancier more expensive concoctions to aid in stopping, repairing and preventing recurrence...
There are a multitude of things you can use.
The infection, same as 'thrush' can be bacterial, fungal or both, and is anaerobic. Therefore oxidation & opening it up to the air is also helpful.
I think that generally speaking, it needs to be dug out, farriers job, as the infection can travel a long way and you won't get rid of it if you don't track down(or up, as the case may be) the end of the infected area.
OK...credit my farrier & friend with this comment as I called him to get it straight...
Also his remedy among others he uses...
Make a paste, so it's a one-step procedure. Not measured amounts, but it's something like 12-16 ounce container size of honey with beeswax honey comb in it {you need this large a size to get a decent sized honeycomb}, about a dessert spoonful of tea tree oil and about a heaped teaspoonful of CS{copper sulfate}. The honey needs to be cold extracted. Put this in the gap the farrier is going to make when he starts digging out the "ick"..
I warm the comb wax, just to about 75 degrees {Fahrenheit} so it's softer & it mixes easily. {microwave}Fill the hole then plug it with some of the heated comb and mix...
You can also use Vaseline instead of the beeswax with the other ingredients but the beeswax will harden and form a "plug" yet still allow oxygen to get in not dirt.
Now...although you can treat surface wise, you also need to treat systemic by finding what is missing in the diet that contributed to a weakness in the system and allowed this to start in the first place. I'm not sure if it would be a biotin supplement added or something else but your farrier should be able to give you some advice about that since he handles the feet often and should also be seeing signs of what ails the horse.
Your farrier may need to do some radical paring of the hoof to get oxygenated air to the site which helps too.
Unfortunately, my farrier who made this for me and got me using this mixture has long since died so I can't ask him questions and learn from his skilled hands and mind about feet like I use to... his son is my farrier now and he knows so much and is very talented. I don't question except to learn. If he says do it I do it...my horses feet never looked so good nor did they travel so well as when he or his dad worked their magic.
I have also read and heard that apple cider vinegar is a great help and preventative once you get it under control.
Have also heard the product Bannixx {not positive on that spelling} works wonders too but have not used them so can't give a yay or nay.
I was told by one person to mix up vaseline and copper sulfate to put into the gap that your farrier must cut away to expose the damage. Also syringe peroxide into the toe, but then also told me to spray diluted copper sulphate over the hoof and into the toe also.
I was told by another to use iodine, squirt it in and hold the foot up for better coverage as long as you can. Use cotton as a "plug" and soak it with iodine...change it daily.
Keeping it dry and open to as much air and sunlight since the bacteria dies when exposed to this...
There is so much conflicting information, remedies and fallacies about seedy toe/white line disease.
My guts tell me you need dry conditions to the foot, air to kill the germ and bacteria and something to actually feed the good tissue so it can attack the bad.
My guts also tell me no to bleach as it could kill the good tissue along with the bad...
When my horse had the *** stuff, I sent him to my farriers barn since mine was a swampy mess. They {he & his parents} took control of the situation and fixed it for me. I was a kid and not really capable of doing all that needed to be done properly.
I do know my horse had his feet trimmed every 4-6 weeks and shoes kept on him for support of his hoof as they did cut his foot back to expose what they had to...I bought my horse with this unknown to me, and once the bad weather set in it was a nightmare and well..just not good. Once it was under control and the weather dried my horse came back home, my farrier came still every 5 weeks and worked his magic...once gone it never came back but I also never allowed my horse to be in such wet conditions ever again...he would live in a dry stall if his paddock was sopping wet every night to dry out his feet some.
Now that you are probably totally confused as am I ....hope some of it along with others words of wisdom you can use and it helps...
I wish you the best of luck as this can be so difficult to get under control and beat... you can't ignore it as it could lame the horse but effectively treating it.... frustrating it is to know what to do.
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on May 20, 2014 12:19:27 GMT
Thanks for all the info HL4L. Where can I get copper sulfate? Does Tractor Supply carry it or should my feed store?
I know we are going to have to do some radical trimming to get to the source of the problem. It is supposed to be dry here for the foreseeable future so that should help.
Not sure what could be missing from his diet. The vet was here a few days ago and noticed his hooves but didn't mention dietary issues (though I understand it could be an issue). Maybe I will get him on some farrier's formula or something of the sort. Will discuss that with my farrier as well. Surely it couldn't hurt.
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Post by horselover4life on May 20, 2014 15:11:15 GMT
I know you used to be able to purchase it in home improvement stores like Home Depot & Lowe's. Don't see why it would not be carried in Tractor Supply or your local feed supply. It has many uses and anyplace that sells lawn and pond things should have it or be able to get it in reasonable sized amounts...
For a hoof supplement, I would look at Farriers Formula. It seems pretty complete and I think that one also has the "supporting" building blocks for renewed hoof growth and hoof horn growth...sometimes something being just slightly our of sync is all it takes to create a invitation for havoc to start.
Wasn't it your horse who stepped on the nail? that might have changed the internal balance just slightly...maybe it is connected and maybe it isn't.
I'm by no means any expert on this subject and still learning myself... I bow to anyone more informed and learned than I...
I ask lots of questions {sometimes stupid questions I think} and do lots of reading trying to be better informed and I have been very lucky so far in my horse ownership to not have had a severe issue...that luck can always change too in a heartbeat. 
I have no shame in admitting not knowing and will never claim to know it all as I don't, nor do I pretend to.
I find horse ownership and riding is a on-going learning experience...one I never tire of. 
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on May 23, 2014 16:29:45 GMT
So the farrier came by yesterday and dug out all of the areas that were affected. I am to throughly clean out these areas and apply a 10% bleach solution twice a day. I asked about the white lightning; he had heard of it but didn't know anyone who had used it. He said his clients had used clean-tracks (I think that is what he said) with success but he wants to see how we do with just the bleach solution for now. Luckily it is not really supposed to rain until *maybe* the end of next week. We need to keep his hooves dry. I may have to take him over to my grandparents if it starts raining regularly (they had higher property and he wouldn't been standing in muck and mire there.
I am planning on getting a hoof supplement in the next day or so. Leaning toward farrier's formula but going to do a little research first.
I will try to get some pictures this evening. I am really embarrassed about how bad I let his feet get. I certainly won't be posting "over there" because I know certain people will rip my head off. But I feel comfortable posting them here, I know yall will just try to be helpful.
I will probably give him a gram of bute tonight. He's not limping but I can tell he is sore (which is not surprising considering how much the farrier had to dig out).
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redzip
Junior Member
Posts: 1,701
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Post by redzip on May 23, 2014 16:47:10 GMT
I have no experience with 'white line' so hope you soon get Mister straightened out apple
I'll learn vicariously thru your experiences.
Good luck and keep us posted.
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Post by horselady on May 24, 2014 1:06:15 GMT
All good advice and my experience with white line and clean traks and white lightening. i found the bleach mix with dry footing to be the best. also cutting back the hooves and digging out as your farrier has done already.
if you do get rain. duct tape and padding works wonders. use styrofoam under the hooves and just tape away,
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Jun 4, 2014 15:45:43 GMT
I had the farrier come back out today to check on Mister's hooves. He said that I was doing a good job and to keep doing it. He trimmed very little, more just to clean it up a bit and said he didn't see any new fungus so that's good. I'm just cleaning his feet out really well and then treating with 10% bleach solution.
I moved him to my grandparent's house yesterday. It's a lot drier there so I will have to go there twice a day to treat his hooves but luckily they are only about 5 mintues from me.
Will try to get pictures tonight.
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Terry
Junior Member
Central Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,466
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Post by Terry on Jun 5, 2014 23:41:30 GMT
I have no experience with white line, but I'm always wanting to learn. I look forward to seeing your pictures and hearing more as you get the situation under control.
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Jun 10, 2014 15:30:24 GMT
Ok, I finally remembered to bring my phone cable to work to download the pictures of Mister's feet. Please remember that my farrier and I both decided to get very aggressive with trimming out the affected areas and it is pretty dramatic. I am doing this so that we can get control of it once and for all. Mister was sore for about 5 days after the initial trim but is no longer sore - even after the farrier was here last week and cleaned things up a bit. Right front  Left front  |
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Jun 10, 2014 15:31:40 GMT
Rear feet:   I am cleaning and treating several spots on the underside of each hoof as well. I know it will take months for this to grow out but I hope at that point Mister's feet will once again be strong and without cracks. It has been dry for a good long spell which means there is less chance of the fungus returning into the hoof but of course now it is raining again. Luckily my grandparent's property dries very quickly even after hard rains. |
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Post by horselover4life on Jun 10, 2014 15:42:51 GMT
Not so radical...but necessary. Your farrier did a good job what I see. A necessary evil to get rid of the infection and promote healing... His feet will grow back...and be strong again. I've seen much worse and seen much less...the crime {paring} fits the needs of Mister and nothing more...  ....soon. |
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Jun 11, 2014 17:00:33 GMT
Thanks HL4L. I feel bad that I let it get to this point but I'm leaving that behind and moving forward for what is best for him.
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Post by horselady on Jun 12, 2014 0:12:21 GMT
I would say in about 6 weeks he should look sooo much better, the farrier has done a good job and now you need to keep his feet germ free and dry. perhaps boots will work and inside those boots put a small piece of foam rubber but this is not to stay on for long periods. only to keep him dry and comfortable.  |
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Jun 12, 2014 12:17:53 GMT
Thanks HL. He is staying 99% dry at my grandparent's house (the reason I moved him there, I live in a mud pit). Treating twice a day with a bleach solution seems to be keeping the germs at bay (and much cheaper than the commercial treatments out there). I think once this is over, his hooves are back to normal and I move him back home, I will continue to treat maybe every 3 days or so with the bleach just as a preventative sort of thing; couldn't hurt.
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Post by lorddaxter on Jun 12, 2014 13:01:52 GMT
I haven't heard of this before, is he still sound?
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Jun 12, 2014 13:44:18 GMT
LD, yes he is sound now, he was a little tender when they first trimmed him like this but after about 5 days he was sound again. Some people know this as seedy toe. Here's some info on it. www.barehoofcare.com/seedy_toe.htm |
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Post by lorddaxter on Jun 12, 2014 15:06:49 GMT
LD, yes he is sound now, he was a little tender when they first trimmed him like this but after about 5 days he was sound again. Some people know this as seedy toe. Here's some info on it. www.barehoofcare.com/seedy_toe.htmOh yeh, in scotland we call it seedy toe lol! |
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Post by horselover4life on Jun 13, 2014 11:33:04 GMT
Oh yeh, in scotland we call it seedy toe lol!
My farrier rolls his eyes and looks at me....
He makes comment of "Ca-ching, ca-ching!".....{translation....$$$$$$$}
 ...if it concerns a horse and you put put a fancy name to it....it is worth $$$$$$$$ !!
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Jun 13, 2014 12:20:12 GMT
Isn't it interesting how a name can change the whole ball game? Luckily the treatment I am doing costs just pennies a day!
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....soon.
...if it concerns a horse and you put put a fancy name to it....it is worth $$$$$$$$ !!