What are the basic differences between western and english?

I'll try to answer what I can but it's hard to completely say without being able to see what you saw at the show today.

Nose above the vertical - English horses should first and foremost go round through the back, driving from the hind end with the poll being the highest point (not broken at the third vertebrae). This is all possible with the horse being above the vertical (but not above the bit). That being said they shouldn't be doing a giraffe impression or have their nose complete strung out.

As far as turning I'm not sure I'm envisioning things correctly, but I wouldn't turn dramatically. Turning should come mostly from the legs and seat with some supporting outside rein as needed. Certainly look where you are headed but I was always taught to keep my shoulders fairly centered to my horses' and not to lean into my turns.

Legs should be lined up "Shoulder-hip-heel" dressage riders generally ride a little longer and stirrups are shortened somewhat while jumping, but you should still have your leg generally under you. There should be a bit more of a bend than what I have seen western riders ride with, but chair seat is a bad thing. Occasionally a saddle that doesn't fit the anatomy of the rider will cause chair seat, but this shouldn't be something that is terribly common.

I ride with a nose band and have used flashes and figure 8's as required but they should never be fastened so slightly that they dig in or cause discomfort. Used correctly, they can be useful as training aids.

Horses should go off leg pressure, and a well trained one should not require 'pony kicks' often a calf squeeze or a heel nudge us lots. Overuse of leg aids is something I see more of with beginners who don't have quiet lower legs yet and their horses get dull to them.

Hard to say what's going on with the pony and posting without watching, but 5'7" is to tall first 12.2 especially if her legs are hanging down past the barrel. Lower leg contact is needed as a base in order to post properly. I bet riding a more appropriately size horse would sort that out for her.

A good point of reference for what good English riding and equitation should look like would be to Google the Macclay (spelling?) Finals. It's a big competition held in the USA and the riders are top notch for their age. Or any equitation or medal class at a a level show. The Royal West will have much better examples of how English riders and horses should go.

that is my personal opinion from what i have learned and taught.. and trust me.. not all is written in stone.. if it feels right it is and if it feels hard and uncomfortable than do it a different way to have it become light and comfy.

I feel that the mother is doing what is best for the girls. but if you can not afford what is right than lease.. get that girl a larger horse or perhaps she will use one of the lesson horses.  

and yes some english people are uppity that is because they have no clue what western is all about.    i respect both and have each one ride the other for a test ride and you will be surprised how many times they compliment each other afterwards.

and posting in a western saddle is acceptable now even in shows..  so post away..   smart horse  

The family story is a bit complicated. The parents are nice people but are allergic to work so they never have any money. My friend has her own business and does very well for herself. She's the one who bought me my wonderful saddle for beating cancer. The girls are her nieces and she tries very hard, harder than their parents, to make their lives better and give them things that will help them grow and develop confidence. The girls have some issues and were held back from school for a year two years ago because the dad decided he'd school them at home. Which meant he'd sit on the computer all day while they did whatever they wanted. So now they're back in school and are in a grade lower than they should be and are just having a tough time socially. My friend wants them to do things that will enrich them. To be honest, I think she started this with the younger one in mind thinking the older one would drop out. The younger one seems to have more issues and I suspect she's in the autism spectrum. But she's blossoming riding and even ran up to me at the show with her arms wide and gave me a big hug when in the past she accepts but is very stiff while I give her one. Then she wanted a picture with me while we held her ribbons and the stuffed animal she won. It made me so happy to see her like that. Anyway, I think the pony was bought with her in mind mostly.

The older girl is awkward physically and riding doesn't come naturally to her like it does to the younger one. She's so tall and gangly it's sad until she gets used to her height and long legs. I can see the pony's ears back when she rides but not with the younger one. And in the past she has expressed little interest in riding. But now she seems to like it. My friend has her own quarter horse that the older girl can ride when she gets more skilled. For now we'll have her ride Prince because my friend's horse can be a wiener sometimes, particularly when someone is doing something that confuses him. Prince is very forgiving and will not go fast if he thinks someone is scared or not sitting solidly. Actually, if he thinks someone is a new rider he doesn't want to move at all and has to be led. 


Back to the English/western thing. Another friend who finally has her first horse after years of lessons got an extremely well trained western horse. The owner/coach where she rides is English. So the coach is pushing her to do things that are very English and the horse is unhappy. He's had a ton of training and Heather put a bunch of rides on him to make sure he still had it. Now they're pushing him to do what he knows he's not supposed to do. I see videos with her riding him and the coach is yelling at her to get his head up and get him going faster and things like that. Seeing him going around doing exactly what he's supposed to is kind of breaking my heart. I fell in love with him while he was here and he's a really sensitive horse who gets his feelings hurt when he thinks he's done something wrong. These English coaches are really getting on my nerves. Too rigid, there's more than one way to ride, have some flexibility and allow yourself to think that you might be wrong about some things.

I was bored and did some googling: This video is a pretty good example of how things generally should look, not perfect, but generally a well ridden round.

youtu.be/4UiH6m9cSi0

I have not had the experience of English riders being 'uppity' quite the opposite actually. There will always be one or two who ruin things, but on the whole not so much. I have actually experienced far more western riders looking down their noses at English riders. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding between the two and feelings get hurt and opinions get formed and it turns into a 'us vs them' thing when it doesn't have to be. I can appreciate a good reiner, but for its own merit, not for what may be a lack of talent over fences for example which is my area of expertise. I would likewise hope that people would appreciate the English horses and their disciplines for their own merit as opposed to how they compare to their own. Benny will never do a 10 foot sliding stop. He just doesn't have the build or talent for it, but thar doesn't mean he is trained wrong or a bad horse, just different than what someone else might be looking for. I hope that makes sense. I think it comes back around to the whole 'If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree' thing.

Sounds like you have had a lot of unfortunate experiences with bad English coaches. There are lots of good ones out there!

This was interesting to read, thank you guys.
I learned a lot