mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749 
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Post by mistersmom on May 22, 2016 2:44:28 GMT
I'm hoping those of you with more experience and knowledge about stifles can help me out. Beau is no spring chicken. LOL. I think he is about 17-18 years old (I keep forgetting to ask the barn manager his exact age and registered name as well). He is out on pasture 24/7 right now which I think is helping as he is starting to develop some arthritic changes (nothing drastic, just old age stuff). Anyway, I have noticed sometimes when I would take him out of his stall or if he had been standing in the crossties for a while that his stifle would sort of "lock up". He would pick his hind leg up really high for one step and then he was fine. It's kind of hard to explain, I wish I could get some video of it. I also notice sometimes when I pick up his hindleg to pick his feet, it's almost like he gets a leg cramp but after a few seconds it relaxes. He has no lameness issues (otherwise) - i.e. he is sound in all his gaits. I looked up locking stifle and he doesn't drag his leg like I saw for that. I don't think it is anything to call the vet out for a special trip as it doesn't happen every time. If I am around when the vet comes out next, I will talk to him/her about it. I also have a vet at work that I can talk to about this as well but thought I would ask all you smart people.  On a similar quest for information - does anyone have any experience with Adequan? We gave Beau a dose after the chiro/massage person was out the other day but I saw that you really need to give a series of 7 doses within a few week period. I'm not sure if the Adequan did any good as it was about the same time he started getting turned out 24/7 rather than being in his stall. It's kind of hard figuring out just how much money to put into a horse that I am only half leasing. I love Beau so much but I need to remind myself that I do not own him. I want him to be as comfortable as possible so that he is able to perform his best for me but just how far do I go with that; where do I draw the line? I could find the several hundred $$ for the Adequan if I really had to but I don't have that kind of money just sitting around.  |
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Terry
Junior Member
Central Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,466
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Post by Terry on May 22, 2016 3:48:24 GMT
Hope the stifle issue isn't too serious. Pocket has a stifle that "locks up" like that sometimes if the farrier forgets and accidentally lifts her hind leg too high, but it unlocks pretty quickly. Hopefully now that he's getting to move around more with being turned out 24/7 instead of being stuck in a stall it will get better.
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Post by horselover4life on May 22, 2016 12:34:46 GMT
What it is is a ligament that gets caught on part of the kneecap...
That ligament also attaches to the femur as all the body parts are wrapped like rubber bands...this one goes pop occasionally.
Not sure exactly how it works but I know there is a edge that the ligament gets caught in or on causing discomfort and problems.
Sometimes there is excessive swelling {from a strain?} in that area and that causes the problem to occur till rested, healed and then ridden again it goes in a circle of happening....
If it happens while astride, calmly back the horse a stride or two and it usually releases...
I know when I worked the h/j barns we had a few of these in some show horses...
One horse in particular was real bad...
Vet did a procedure of...
Horse standing awake but numb to pain and sedated...
Incision made and the ligament creating the issue released. {I was at the head so did not see if it was totally cut or partially cut}
Horse {if I remember correctly} had a few stitches....stall rest during healing.
Once skin was healed the horse was hand-walked and slowly returned to a work routine. Think it took about 6 weeks total recovery from surgical start.
This was on a OTTB, 17.2 hand gelding who did 3'6" - 3'9" courses as a Medal/Maclay/USET show horse.
I have also seen "blistering" done....do not remember the outcome, but was ugly to deal with and care for. Can only imagine it hurt too...
I think the course of action needs determining by having a very thorough lameness exam with flexions done at the least, today with technology a ultra-sound to see how bad the injury is and why.
MM.... my personal feeling on this..
Although you care deeply about the animal, it is not your place or responsibility to foot the bills this horse incurs. Nor should it be your responsibility to make the decisions of this magnitude on a horse you not own...
This has been a ongoing problem for some time, now being worked and ridden it is again showing itself.
Wasn't this horse semi-retired by the owner?
She rides a second horse now for {I think you mentioned} fox hunting or something?
This unfortunately gets worse many times as it is part of aging.
There are some things that can be done to slow the progression, but it is there and is going to be there.
It should not fall on you as your responsibility to correct, pay for "a fix" and possibly life-long medical intervention.
Adequan injections don't fix the problem, they band-aid it.
Like anything else though, those injections are not forever, work only just so long and so well then they don't work anymore...
I do question if what you feel when astride is like having his hind-end fall out from under you?
If it is...then ultrasounds need done and quickly.
It might not be a stifle but a torn ligament lower in the leg...that is something really different and very, very serious.
I would recommend this article and joining this site {free to join} for accurate information about all things horse...
www.thehorse.com/articles/19963/diagnosis-and-treatment-of-stifle-lameness
 ...from me for now.
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Post by horselady on May 22, 2016 17:10:59 GMT
MM as much as you love this horse it is not your responsibility to pay for all of the vet costs,, the owner should have the knowledge about the care and upkeep of a horse with sticky stifle.
the farrier should not pick up the hind leg out and up..to the side his leg should be taken up going back past the tail and not picked up so high. as the motion to the side annoys and causes it to stick.
when on cross ties back up first than go forward as the leg will stick and if he walks forward that hind will lag behind.
from what i have read and done. walking up and down hills will help. and not exerting the legs... as he ages. and does continue to jump it will become more visible. like riding a car with a flat tire.
good luck and as much as you love him.. be careful and perhaps not use him so much with hunter work and cross country. jmo
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mingiz
Junior Member
Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 3,320
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Post by mingiz on May 22, 2016 21:01:58 GMT
My experience with stifle injuries is JR. He blew his completely. All he could do is drag his hind leg. So with bute and turn out he gradually came back. But it ended his mountain riding days. I have ridden him here and the last time I took him camping he was a total ass. Not sure why. But chalked it up to his leg bothering him. He does have a shorter stride on that leg. But can haul ass across the field. He also doesn't like the farrier picking up that leg high. He will jerk it away real quick. He hasn't done it in awhile. But I also don't ride him anymore. I probably could but he is now buddy sour. Rawhide when we first got him didn't have any muscle tone. If he was in the stall and turned on his haunch his stile would pop out. I would back him up and it would pop back in and he was fine. So he was better off out in the pasture. Since he has built up muscle I have had no more issues. The stifle area is hard to treat because it to dense of an area to xray. With Beau's age it could be just from wear and tear on the patella area and the ligaments are catching on it. There isn't to much that you can do about it. First thing I would do if he was mine is retire him from jumping or totally. I agree with HL4H the injections just cover it up. It will not get better at his age. You also shouldn't be pouring your money into a horse you do not own. I'm sorry that this has happened as I know how you feel about him.  |
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on May 22, 2016 21:51:35 GMT
Thanks for all the info. Luckily, I have never felt him do this while under saddle and it's really not a new issue or something that happens all the time, just something I was thinking about last night. I agree that this is something that should not fall on me as a half-leaser. His owner still hunts with him (second string - she doesn't jump anymore) and she doesn't really ride the rest of the year except for maybe a trail ride here and there. I don't think the work I am doing with him is causing it to get worse but I will certainly keep an eye on that. If it does seem he is getting worse, as much as it would pain me to stop riding/jumping him, I will if that is what is in his best interest.
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Jun 13, 2016 17:36:47 GMT
I happened to get a quick video of what happens sometimes with his stifle. He had been standing in the wash rack for a while since I was soaking his hoof. Thank goodness I've never felt him do this under saddle and it doesn't happen all the time. When it does happen it is usually after he's been standing still while getting tacked up and whatnot or when I get him out of his stall.  Sorry it's so shaky. Hopefully you can see it happening. I will try to get a better video when I can. |
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Post by horselover4life on Jun 17, 2016 23:29:06 GMT
I'm not so sure that is just a sticky stifle....
It is NOT your financial responsibility for this horse to be vetted for a cause and reason... wag finger
I think the owner should be looking for some more conclusive answers though....
And if you are ever the opportunity to purchase this horse you do every soundness exam known including ultrasounds and blocks for real answers...
I think the owner is more aware than lets on what the issues are you now are finding.
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Jun 18, 2016 0:45:46 GMT
Oh, believe me, I am not going to calling a vet about this issue, one because it really doesn't seem to bother him and two, he is not my horse.
I know the owners and have for a very long time. She may or may not know that this happens but I lean towards not knowing. Unless it is the few months that they are out hunting, they almost NEVER come up to the barn to ride or just to see the horses (well that I know of). And they live on the property, it is their farm. They are just those types of people that have someone tack up their horses, usually on a whim, and just show up, get on and ride for an hour on the trails then get off and hand the horses back to their employee. They are kind people but just not interested in the day to day with the horses. To me, this is really sad.
But yes, if hell freezes and she offers him to me, I would be sure to do an extensive PPE.
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...from me for now.
