Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 17:16:05 GMT
So as some of you know Benny has been struggling with on and off diarrhea more or less since I have owned him. He has had a few vet exams and during the most recent one (in October) we pulled some blood and found that his blood protein was just inside the normal range by a point or so, but was much lower than it should have been. Based on his gut sounds and other symptoms he was diagnosed with hind-gut inflammation. Since then his issues have been largely resolved... until now.
Currently, in addition to hay (alfalfa / timothy mix) Benny gets TizWhiz Grow and Preform (complete feed), GroHoof (Biotin), and occasionally when he has flare-ups Gut Soothe (basically liquid Tums for horses). He can't stay on the Gut Soothe long term because it isn't designed for that, so he only gets it for a day or two and then he has to come off of it. For the last several months he has been doing great, I'm not sure what changed that brought this on, but his gut is clearly irritated again.
Benny has no other symptoms again, he is bright, energetic, and holding weight very well.
When the vet was out in October she had suggested that because of the inflammation in his hindgut he was likely having issues digesting long fibers (hay) and that it might be a good idea to switch him onto short fibers (pellets, cubes) to help his digestions along and prevent his blood protein from getting so low again. I have noticed that there is undigested hay in his stool, noticeably so, and all longer stands (for hay that has been chewed anyway). It is worth noting that his teeth have been recently checked and floated and are in great shape, so it isn't a chewing issue.
The vet also suggested Equisure (Equishure? Not 100% on the spelling) I guess this is very expensive and some horses experience temperament changes on it. I am really hoping to avoid this route. When we spoke in October she didn't feel like it was necessary yet, but that I might need to consider it if his symptoms return.
She also suggested putting him on a probiotic. Again, the one she suggested is expensive and hard to get in this area... I'm hoping to maybe get suggestions on ones that members here have had success with?
Her final suggestion was to put him on Rice Bran or Canola oil. I had him on Canola oil previously, but he hasn't had it for a while. I am going to pick up some rice bran tonight and slowly take him off the TizWhiz and onto the Rice Bran. She suggested Equine Power 2000, has anyone fed this before? Thoughts? Or is there another rice bran you like better?
Does anyone have suggestions or experience dealing with horses with chronic hind gut inflammation? I'm at a bit of a loss here. I want to avoid the Equisure if at all possible, the cost is almost prohibitive for me. I'm not opposed to having the vet back out, and will probably give her a call this afternoon to see what she thinks, but we more or less already know what the issue is. Our problem now is finding a more effective management system. I'm looking for any input I can get.
Sorry for the novel. |
|
|
|
Post by carshon on Feb 16, 2016 17:42:04 GMT
Not much help here but do know a horse at the show barn my hubby takes lessons at that can only have short fiber - sounds like for much of the same reasons. He gets a mixture of beet pulp, alfalfa cubes and pellets as well as some chopped hay they purchase by the bag (like Lucerne or something along those lines) he was given OmepriZone (I think is the name) to lower stomach acid production to try and get the inflammation reduced. He tended to flare the worst during heavy work and show season.
|
|
|
|
Post by horselover4life on Feb 16, 2016 17:53:29 GMT
I don't know if this would help you at all or not...
www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/empower-supplements/empower-boost/index.jsp
It is rice bran, it is pre & probiotics.
It is a lot of things that did a great healing job on the guts of my "Duke" when we got him. He also was a mess but not as bad as Benny is.
I still use it as a supplemental fat added to his daily feed....
I am not sure it is available in your province or not but my local Tractor Supply store is where I purchase it in 40 pound bags.
It smells good, it tastes good {yes I sampled a piece} and the horse eats it willingly.
It has healed Dukes gut, given him healthier feet, a sweet disposition.
I also buy TS own brand of Dumoor Alfalfa pellets.... they're larger pellets that I soak, then feed as Duke has choked on me.. My other horse loves them too and he eats the pellets dry with no issue when I am being generous.
Duke had some digestion problems also when he came till recently that these made a difference in him gaining and holding his weight, solidifying his manure.
I feed Duke about 2 pounds of these a day, soaked soft by a gallon of warm water in his ration of feed, supplement and alfalfa pellets.
By all means continue to allow Benny to chew as he needs to do but maybe offering pellets processed could help to heal Bennys' gut and able to digest better that which is already "not hay" chunks....
{did that make sense?}
Those pellets by me come in several "hay" choices...alfalfa, timothy alfalfa, timothy...40 pound bags.
I wonder if the reason you suddenly have issue is a recent hay delivery that came from your hayman but off a different farmers field....
If all else is the same, what has changed but possibly the hay or the feed recipe...
Makes me wonder if the horse has a allergic reaction to a product sprayed on the ground or put in the feed mix since you were good and suddenly you are not...
Or why is his gut flora being killed off?....
How to find that out I don't know though...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 18:57:00 GMT
Thanks for all the great fast responses!
I would not be surprised if his episodes are directly related to his work load. He is in Moderate / Heavy work right now. In the past his worst times where when his workload increased or he was under stress.
I am definitely going to call around to some feed stores this afternoon and see if I can get some of that Boost. That looks like exactly like what he needs. We do have a few Nutrena dealers in the area so I'm hopeful.
I had initially thought it was the hay too, but the place I board at grows all of their own hay. It all comes from the same field, so there shouldn't be any huge changes, but I'll take another look at his bale tonight. His buddy gets fed off of the same bale without issues, but he probably has a less sensitive tummy than Benny.
Lots to consider. I am really grateful for all the great input and experience shared.
Edited to add: Called around and talked to the Purena Rep on my lunch break. The Empower line is a no-go in Canada. CFSA doesn't like some of the ingredients I guess  Too bad, it seemed like it would be perfect. She did suggest trying "Athlete", but it doesn't have the pre & pro biotics in it. |
|
leli
New Member
Posts: 57 
|
Post by leli on Feb 16, 2016 21:48:53 GMT
My BO adds Power2000 to the grain for all her horses in the barn, generally because those ones are getting ridden hard and often. I'm assuming it helps with their muscle development? It does smell quite nice though  |
|
|
|
Post by horselady on Feb 17, 2016 12:40:10 GMT
I have never had this problem so i am looking forward to learning with all this information. hope you find a solution to the problem. i bet it is annoying knowing that something is off and not find out what it is.
|
|
Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
|
Post by Lipizzan on Feb 17, 2016 13:37:18 GMT
I too did not ever had this kind of a problem, or know anything about it. I mean the hay (grass) is the main food horses eat, they can't digest without. So I am suprised that hay could be one of the problem causing this. Did you try to give him just regular grass/hay not alfafa. I know alfafa is quite strong with nutrients. I personaly don't even give it to much, just to pregnant mares ad horses that work harder.
|
|
|
|
Post by carshon on Feb 17, 2016 17:03:16 GMT
My daughter and I clean a vet clinic 3 x a week and I had a chance to talk to one of the vets last night. He wondered if he had hind gut ulcers or the beginning of hind gut ulcers. He suggested Cimetidine - you can google it and find that it has been used to treat hind gut ulcers. Oddly enough this is the suggested treatment for my daughters horse and its melanoma's. We started about a month ago and are having great luck with it.
|
|
|
|
Post by horselover4life on Feb 17, 2016 22:46:30 GMT
Apollo....
In case you don't recognize the name "Cimetidine"....
Better known as Tagamet in human form..
If you try this, look at filling the script at a regular pharmacy for pricing and availability...it may be much cheaper than purchasing from your vet, or go to one of the horse pharmacy {valley vet, united vet equine, etc}
It is prescription only in doses large enough for horses...
Side effects are always possible but rare.
Not to be used if liver, kidney or blood disorders are present...
It is not "approved" by the FDA and with that not sure where that fits in with Canadian laws or if it matters since a vet must write the directive...
I've "fed" other drugs with this classification before...not this one though.
It helped the animals it was prescribed for...
Read...
www.drsfostersmith.com/Rx_Info_Sheets/rx_eq_cimetidine.pdf
|
|
|
|
Post by horselady on Feb 18, 2016 1:35:09 GMT
Not to bring or confusion to the mix BUT i was reading a article about human crone's disease and auto immundeficiency (sp) and it basically said that the symptoms are intestional upset and diarreha.. my girlfriend has both of them plus other things going on and she is on medication. but this article says that probiotics and prebiotics (yes there is two of them) one needs replacement and the other is to be left alone. the advice is yogurt. to help the pros and keep the pre. worth a try.. is natural and easy to buy.
Perhaps a blood test to see if he has crones??//
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2016 18:05:58 GMT
Carshon - Thank you for thinking of Benny and I when you got a chance to talk to the vet. I am touched, and I really appreciate it. I have been doing lots of googling and reading up in the last day or so on all this new information and will be calling my vet to discuss with her what she thinks and what sort of availability these medications have in Canada. It is a good thought about possible ulcers too. I have treated him for ulcers in the past, but it is definitely possible that he is having a recurrence or new ones have developed. I will have to look it up, but I'm pretty sure the stuff I treated him with was only for foregut ulcer and not hindgut ones, so it would make sense. That, coupled with the fact that he was at the track, and did have a few high stress, painful months when I first moved him to this place... this is something I am going to look into more.
Horselover - Thank you for the added info! It was very helpful. When we did a full blood panel work-up on him last fall he didn't show signs of any of those disorders so we should be good if I can get it in Canada. That has seriously been my biggest obstacle in all of this - it seems like we can never get the 'good' stuff up here. For one reason or another, or if we can get it the cost is huge. First world problems I know, but it is times like this that I wish our government was a little less busy trying to protect us from ourselves haha.
Benny is in moderate to heavy work so I don't mind that he is on an alfalfa mix hay right now. Its the same stuff that he was on all winter when he was doing well. I flat him three times a week and he has two small jumping sessions a week as well. It is good quality, nice hay (some of the nicer hay I have seen in the area this year) but is not overly rich. I picked up some Power 2000 and have started the process of transitioning him onto it instead of the TizWhiz. He was iffy about eating it, but I think he'll come around. He is kind of picky when it comes to that sort of thing. I'm still looking into different pre & pro biotics, but am hoping to find one for him soon.
Horselady - Crohn's is a good thought, I know a few people with Crohn's as well and never occurred to me that horses could probably get it too. I have been looking into this as well and it looks like it is more common I horses that I would have thought. I'll be brining that up to my vet today as well.
I'll update again after I call my vet. Thank you all again for the great info and advice. I am so grateful to the amazing members here for sharing their experiences and thoughts with me!
|
|
Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
|
Post by Lipizzan on Feb 19, 2016 8:48:49 GMT
I am glad to learn new stuff as well from all those incredible people here who know so much more then me. We al want your horse to get better and enjoy his life without pain. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 16:49:40 GMT
Sorry I'm just getting around to updating this now, it has been a bit of a crazy weekend.
The good news - Benny is doing much better, he is almost back to normal consistency, but is a little looser than he should be, this appears to have just been a minor flare up, but still big enough to demonstrate that his management program needs to be adjusted for the level of work he is in now.
I spoke to my vet and she we are going to do a few tests to explore the possibility of Crohn's or a similar disorder, but given that he was at the track, had a high stress, high pain period in October 2014, and that things seem to only get worse with work or extreme weather changes she is more inclined to stay with the hindgut inflammation or possible ulceration. Unfortunately, this time of year is bad for temperature swings in my area, which is likely a contributing factor to the latest issue. She wants to hold off on starting Cimetidine until we try out a few other things.
I did find a pre and probiotic up here that I am going to start him on. It is a paste for the loading dose (15cc / day for 10 days) and then granules after than. It is a little on the expensive side, but cheaper than the equishure so I'm going to give it a go for a few months and see if it makes any difference. My vet suggested pairing it with Acid FX which is supposed to help reduce acid splash when given before a ride. He doesn't exhibit any under saddle symptoms of discomfort, but I might give it a try anyway if I can find some.
|
|
|
|
Post by horselover4life on Mar 2, 2016 18:30:15 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2016 17:58:49 GMT
Thank you!
I have signed myself up for a subscription - Very interesting information, and a lot of it!
I'm going to try and find some RiteTrac up here. I know we can get the Equishure, but it is rather expensive and I know two horses that experienced extreme temperament changes on it. I'm willing to try anything at this point.
Benny's latest episode seems to be resolved, but I'd rather get his management adjusted so that we don't have to go through another one.
|
|
Too bad, it seemed like it would be perfect. She did suggest trying "Athlete", but it doesn't have the pre & pro biotics in it. 
....