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Post by spirithawk06 on Feb 16, 2016 0:48:26 GMT
I am trying to find good information to present to my brother as to why he should NOT put weight on his coming 2 year old filly. She comes from a line of slow-maturing horses. Her dam is just over 14.2 hands and has a big bum on her. Her sire is around the same height, maybe taller and both he, his sire, and his full-blood brother were nowhere near done growing until later in their 5th year. She's just at 13 hands right now and is nowhere near filled out. She still looks like a baby despite the fact that she's going to hit that "magic" 2 year mark in April.  I know why he shouldn't put weight on her until later, but everyone keeps telling him to throw a saddle on her and get on when she turns 2 in April! Only one said to wait..but until August. I'm not bashing people who saddle break at 2, but I know it is not the right thing for this filly. Do you guys have any good resources I can show him to convince him not to put any weight on her right now? I can't find the really awesome page that I had found when I was doing my own research and the google ones that are coming up aren't convincing to say the least. Thanks! Please excuse the mud. We've been having an unusual amount of rain. It's drowned the winter grass and the bermuda is barely starting to come up.  |
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Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572 
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Post by Lipizzan on Feb 16, 2016 8:39:08 GMT
Sorry but this is something I am against. No matter of a breed, how much you think a horse is ready or etc. For me no one should ride a two year old horse, no one. Not because some horses can't take it, but because no horse is psychologically ready for beeing ridden and worked.
Let them be horses, be yound and playful, enjoy their time. You would not send a 8 year old child to work and earn money, right? Not because the child can't , but because it's only a child.
The most funny reason people say to me when they want to broke their horse at two is : "later it will be It will be harder"?! What? NO!!!
IT WILL BE EASIER. Horses who live in a healthy environment when they reach aprox. 4 years are much much more easier to work with regarding if riding and driving.
My breed , Lipizzans are one of slow maturing breed, they fully develope as late as 6-8 years old.
I mean why should anyone want to ride a two year old , where is the rush? Especially if they have other horses to ride.
There are many many articles on the internet , I did not wanted to copy them, but to write my opinion.
It is a daily struggle for me here in Croatia, because people are so much less educated about horses , this is not right. So I am somehow suprised how man people in America are riding two year olds, I mean they even look still like babies.
Sorry for my harsh opinion, but this is something I strongly belive in.
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Post by horselover4life on Feb 16, 2016 11:19:40 GMT
So....You're right about wanting to get aboard later rather than sooner.
First off a horses joints need time to harden, close open joints, their tendons and ligaments need to develop enough to withstand a riders weight.
Another is once the horse has been backed, you really need to continue their training in a consistent "every day" atmosphere so their mind and their body becomes accustomed to work...a lot of dedication of people time at this time doing it wrong can really screw up a horse.
Working a horse in small confined spaces is a recipe for disaster, not today, not tomorrow but if done wrong and before the body is ready to handle that riders weight by the time the horse is 5 or 6 he could be crippled. I know a 60' round pen sounds large but to a horse that is a small area...they need to work in long straight lines...like a racehorse
{I don't condone racing and their training practices}
All ground training must be solidly entrenched in the mind and that horse has had all the basics of handling and complying from the ground finished first, before you go on the back.
I found you this article... a excerpt below of it and when you read it it makes much sense to truly wait till the horse is older....
Other then thoroughbreds, quarter horses and other horses intended for racing, no horses should start in their yearling year, because most of them are later maturing and work in limited spaces, unlike the racehorses that work in more open spaces. When to begin training depends on the amount of Arabian or thoroughbred blood; less "refined" horses start later.
horsemanpro.com/articles/age_criteria.htm
Two other references with pretty much the same thought....
WAIT.... let the horse physically mature first before you try riding it. To soon, to young and your horse will be injured and not ride-able to soon and forever...
answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A0LEViqC_sJWyOkAvzwnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByNXM5bzY5BGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMzBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--?qid=20090110123829AAHCpaE&p=why%20should%20you%20wait%20till%20a%20horse%20is%202%20years%20old%20or%20older%20to%20start%20riding%20them
Hope those give you some help in convincing the other to STAY OFF THE BACK!!
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Post by horselady on Feb 16, 2016 12:40:45 GMT
To give an example, i take in horses that need rescue, sure it take alot of time and money to save them. but the majority of the horses that i take in are between 7 and 10 years old that have been started and worked as coming or two year olds. reining horses. show horses. tb from racing are mostly broken down in the knees and hocks.
the filly that was boarded here under two years old the trainer of the last facility she was at and the owner decided to lunge her at a walk. trot and canter. before letting this filly understand that there should be no buck or hard work. well that filly has a blown knee. i called it to the attention of the owner and she said wow. "when did that happen" a video she showed me had the trainer cracking a lunge whip and the filly went bonkers.
that being said. i hope the owner stays off her back, and only works her on the ground for manners and voice commands. just normal common sense.
as for tb. racing and roping and reining and hardwork. well it is all for the money. they too should be started later. JMO
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mingiz
Junior Member
Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 3,320
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Post by mingiz on Feb 16, 2016 13:05:38 GMT
In my experience. Now this is one I raised. From the time she hit the ground I messed with her. As she got older I would do ground training with her. Even as a yearling I used a lead rope and put it around her girth area and would squeeze and release. You name it I did it. When she turned 2 she wore a saddle. So by the time we sat on her she was saddle ,ground broke, and trailer. The first time Doo sat on her she didn't care. I walked her off and she never offered to do anything wrong. The first trail ride with her was short and sweet. When she turned 3 she was trail riding like a seasoned horse. Never spooked at anything. No refusals.
So if your brother does more ground work and desensitizing. His first ride will be good. If the knees are closed up all is good. If not I wouldn't ride her. He can do up to everything now to have her ready to ride. He could sit on her and have her hand walked with him on but only for a few minutes. No long sessions. Also she looks stocky enough to be sat on. So if he keeps it like a 5 minute ride it will be a lot better on the filly and him in the long run. jmo
Oh if he is a small guy that's better. I wouldn't put a lot of weight on her just yet. Doo was only 125lbs. I would wait till she is a good 2 1/2. Her knees should be closed by then.
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Feb 16, 2016 14:58:15 GMT
Spirit - could you get your vet's office to recommend some literature about the subject? Or maybe get the vet out to look at the horse while your brother is there and explain to him why he needs to wait?
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Post by carshon on Feb 16, 2016 17:50:29 GMT
I am with Mingiz on this one. I had the opposite with Steve. He was a big colt - out of big stock. So at 2 he was not filled out but was close to 15H. everyone said better get on him now while you can still muscle him. Hubby and I decided we had better wait. That being said - Steve had been handled at day one and on a daily basis. At 1 and 2 he wore a saddle and could be hand walked over poles etc with the saddle on. I am not a fan of lunging so none of my horses know how - be did wear a bridle and would long drive with a bit in his mouth.
At 3 he went for 30 days - he had already been backed at that point but I wanted someone to put a stop on him and some different finer points. After his 30 days he was ridden very very lightly - until he turned 4 and I stated to trailer him for trail rides.
I would suggest a lot of ground work and as others have said talk to a vet to give your BIL some starting points and know how to look for the signs when this filly is mature enough to carry weight. There is also something to be said about being mentally mature enough for training as well.
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Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
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Post by Lipizzan on Feb 16, 2016 18:55:41 GMT
It's not about if a horse can take it, some horses are stocky and are able to carry riders with two, or they seem like they can. It is about letting horse mature in his head, let a horse be a horse. Two year olds are still babies and they should enjoy their "childhood"! Playing and ground work, not lunging is a great way to prepare a horse. People don't ride babie horses. I see that as a abuse , sorry but I do.
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Post by spirithawk06 on Feb 19, 2016 0:28:41 GMT
I'll get better pictures of her tomorrow if I can. That picture makes her look more filled out than she is. I absolutely do NOT want her backed right now. I gave her to my brother but told him that I reserve the right to take her back if she's not being cared for properly. Her mother is the grey mare in the picture with her.
I agree with the fact that she's mentally not ready to have weight on her back. She's still very much a baby mentally, more so than her sire was at that age and I know every horse is different. Her sire is kid safe at 4 years old, but she's much more flighty. There's so much more they need to do with her before putting weight on her back. She's come a long way, but she still needs some more work on flexing, manners, voice and body cues, desensitizing, etc.
Thanks for the info to pass along y'all. I wanted to be able to show him concrete evidence, because he has "experienced horsemen" telling him he needs to start riding her or she will be harder to train, which I know is baloney!
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