redzip
Junior Member
Posts: 1,701 
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Post by redzip on Oct 15, 2015 4:27:44 GMT
Some of you have read my comments about CF again,., raising my lesson fee $10 before I left on vacation, then trying to raise it ANOTHER $10 when I got back, making one weekly lesson cost $90  Well, after questioning the increases, it has come to my attention that the BO was charging my instructor a $15 training fee per student (thereby cutting her lesson price) and also charging me a $10 haul in fee (arena fee). That seems like 'double dipping' but I don't know what is customary? I don't think that I should be expected to 'make up' the fee charged between trainer and BO, as that is the costs of doing business. I also have no problem paying a haul in fee, but apparently I was about to get stuck with both fees, indirectly.
The way it was resolved was that the trainer came to my farm, so no haul in fee, and she keeps all of the lesson money.
BUT,., what is customary in these situations??
I find it to be pretty low that everyone is so focused on their 'fees' and are treating me like a red headed step child
(no offense to any red headed step children  ).
Do trainers pay 'per student' fees to BO's, or is it upon the student to pay the 'haul in' fee and that compensates the BO??
Its getting a little ridiculous, but I get the feeling that the 'per student' fee is not the norm, haul in is the norm.
Thanks!! |
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Post by horselover4life on Oct 15, 2015 10:21:20 GMT
Fees....
Haul in is the norm.
Using a barn instructor though then is the norm. The reason people would go to a particular barn is the instruction...
You hauled in and did not use the "official" barn instructor so were suddenly being considered "the guest rider"....
However... for what your trainer was suddenly upping her fees to, then the barn expecting more fees paid on top...
No... 
Oh... and the "lesson price" should of reverted back to what you were paying BEFORE all those fees were being added.
No overhead to the instructor now she comes to your farm so all is "profit".
Since you live 5 minutes away it isn't like she is having to travel an extra longer distance...
Just my take on it but I think the barn and the instructor think of you as a "cash cow"....  just kept forking it over.
Sadly, I have a feeling she is not of the caliber trainer to be charging and receiving near $100 a lesson for... 45 minutes???
She may be good... but you have had just as good if not better and no where near that pricing not to long ago.
So the greed has now bit the barn and possibly the instructor in the butt.... there is only so much you should be willing to pay, have to pay...
Draining the bank was a dumb, stupid move on both parties behalf.
They tipped the scale and now one is cut-off and the other... 
 ...
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Post by horselady on Oct 15, 2015 11:51:41 GMT
A haul in fee is the normal fee to bring in an outside horse to the facility. and of course that goes to the barn owners a trainer that has to pay a fee to the barn owner is what we consider an outside trainer not one that is getting paid by the barnowner and the lesson monies go to the barn owner. in your case the double dipping was everyone wanting to make money off of you. as i see it that place is not going to be in business too much longer so have this trainer coming to you is ideal. if you want to go somewhere to ride than go for a trail ride with some other people. you having so much land just make a trail and have someone come to you and buddy up and go. When i trucked my horse into a facility i had to pay the barn owner and the trainer. the monies the trainer paid to the barn owner was her business, i payed the going rate for the trainer. if i brought MY trainer than my trainer had to share her money with the barn owner. so many variables, that it is what ever is" agreed upon" and what the student is willing to" continue paying". in your case you decided not to pay double what you were in june.  you. |
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Post by carshon on Oct 15, 2015 13:40:41 GMT
My husband takes weekly lessons at a barn near us. It is a very successful show barn that has just started near me. He pays his lesson fee and is encouraged to bring his own horse (which we have) and our fees have never increased. No haul in fee . We always use the barn trainer or one of her apprentices so I am not sure about an additional fee for additional trainers.
To me it sounds like miscommunication between the BO and the trainer. The trainer is not going there specifically for you - there are other riders using her. The fees should have been set in stone when the trainer came and any increase should have a grace period. IE> fees will be going up in 30 days etc.
The BO is trying to make up for lost students and lost trainers and will force the remaining clients away. Personally I would not keep utilizing her barn as it just reinforces that she can do what she wants and people will come back. I would rather haul farther to a different barn than to reward this sub-par BO for what she is doing to her clients
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redzip
Junior Member
Posts: 1,701
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Post by redzip on Oct 15, 2015 13:43:33 GMT
Well,., ALL of it is only 'coming to light' bc I posted a question about the scenario I am being dealt on a local horse board, and the BO saw it. It made her look greedy and foolish, and the majority of responses to my question were , "you should find a new place to ride" - UNANIMOUSLY  Then the BO sent me a snarky reply, I replied back with a snarky, but FACT FILLED reply, and she humbled herself. I told her I was the client, without me, neither of them get their cut. (they are the most expensive place in the area, and I NOW have my feelers out to other places, not as close, but maybe less drama filled). So THEN, I told the trainer that the BO sent me a message, and that is how I found out that the trainer was being charged $15 per student,.., when initially, she had told me it was $5 per student. Which makes me think, the BO raised that fee,.., ^^ so apparently she is taking a bigger cut of the trainer's fees, BUT, otherwise, she has NO 'on site' trainer. And this trainer is who she has coming in, so she is technically, the on site trainer. I think she should be paying this person to train there, or at least letting her keep her training fees bc she has no one else., therefore she can only offer boarding, not training, or training board. I equate it to my hairstylist world, I don't pay the company to let me work in their salon, BUT I have to make my 'salary' thru $ amounts in services. Kind of a bit of both. Can we say CRAZY!!! Well, then my friend, who knows ALL the area horse people, told me that they/CF have offered a new 'interviewee' trainer $10 a hour to work and train there. OF COURSE this trainer ^ is a gold medalist dressage rider (my current trainer is a dressage judge), and gets $85 a lesson (my current trainer is getting $70).
I'm pretty sure she is NOT going to work over there for $10 a hour, especially when she can 'command' $85 a hour
on her own, or doing clinics.
NO FRICKN WONDER that I do not show!!!! Geez! |
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redzip
Junior Member
Posts: 1,701
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Post by redzip on Oct 15, 2015 13:49:53 GMT
My husband takes weekly lessons at a barn near us. It is a very successful show barn that has just started near me. He pays his lesson fee and is encouraged to bring his own horse (which we have) and our fees have never increased. No haul in fee . We always use the barn trainer or one of her apprentices so I am not sure about an additional fee for additional trainers. To me it sounds like miscommunication between the BO and the trainer. The trainer is not going there specifically for you - there are other riders using her. The fees should have been set in stone when the trainer came and any increase should have a grace period. IE> fees will be going up in 30 days etc. The BO is trying to make up for lost students and lost trainers and will force the remaining clients away. Personally I would not keep utilizing her barn as it just reinforces that she can do what she wants and people will come back. I would rather haul farther to a different barn than to reward this sub-par BO for what she is doing to her clients AGREE!!!!!! I do think my current 'trainer' deserves her usual fee, not cut by 1/4th bc she drives over there and services the BO's boarders, haul ins, etc. $5 is not a big deal, $15 starts to cut that fee down by more. AND I understand why this trainer would rather come to me, it cuts out the BO, her charges, and her BS. So, since the weather is good now, I will ride at home, and when it gets colder, will make that decision then. Its so much simpler to just stay home To me, it really seems like people are on 'the take' these days,.., nothing is just straightforward,., unbelievable! |
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Post by horselover4life on Oct 15, 2015 14:00:33 GMT
Ohhhh.... the web woven spins tighter and tighter around the lies and subterfuge.... deceit, greed and half-truths!!
Do the lessons at your barn, with no drama happening but what you want ... {thought not!}
Do indeed keep your options open and look, critique and continue a search for a different trainer.
There are many fish in the ocean. You can learn something from near all of them and you never know what you may stumble across while looking...
In the meantime, the word is out.
The barn owner now has been called out for her actions and the forum you wrote on sounds like a agreement of respondents said "Move on, get out and find another barn!"
You know, the multitudes of those who do not know you but read your post have "0" allegiance to either side...they just voiced a opinion and advice.
Sounded good to me!
...
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redzip
Junior Member
Posts: 1,701
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Post by redzip on Oct 15, 2015 14:12:34 GMT
LOL, the persons who responded to my question, KNEW EXACTLY what farm I was talking about and the BO knew it And I agree, they are all treating me like the 'cash cow' that I AM NOT. At least the trainer is remaining more straightforward, but I think the BO is 'double dipping' too. She has NO ONE to train clients, or do training board, or offer training to haul ins. She should just suck it up for awhile, bc she seriously comes off as arrogant and greedy She^ keeps bringing these people 'on', and thru her introduction, I have met them. She is representing them to clients, and prospective clients, as 'the trainer', not the other way around. This farm is the only farm in this area with that kind of 'turn over'. Its sad. LOL, she claims to have other trainers 'waiting in the wings' except she has no one. Of her own admission, one has never gotten back in touch with her, and the other is the one I mentioned that knows my friend. From what I understand, she wants NO PARTS of the BS over there. She is concerned of the effect it might have on her reputation. The funniest part is, I might get a lesson with her (gold medalist rider) (rofl)on my friend's farm instead, bahaha they've been making plans to get together!! |
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mistersmom
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Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Oct 15, 2015 14:24:54 GMT
I have no idea how things work at the barn I ride at with regards to haul in and/or use fees. I do have a friend who hauls her horse in for lessons, I will try to remember to ask her if she is charged an additional fee to do so.
For now, while the weather is nice, have the trainer come to you. But be looking for a barn with an indoor and reasonable fees for the winter. You may not find one as close but it may be worth a little drive in the end.
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mingiz
Junior Member
Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 3,320
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Post by mingiz on Oct 16, 2015 0:28:33 GMT
This is why I trail ride!!! No drama!!  |
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redzip
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Post by redzip on Oct 16, 2015 1:11:08 GMT
This is why I trail ride!!! No drama!! Thats what I say Mingiz!! I had no NO IDEA that the dressage people were such DRAMA LLAMAS,., OMG Utterly ridiculous!! It is NOT my goal or my desire to become involved in that silliness. The lessons have paid off well working with Zippy, but the rest of it is just plain silly. No Thank You!!!! |
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Oct 16, 2015 1:35:42 GMT
Please don't lump all dressage people as drama llamas - don't get me wrong, a lot are (more than it seems other disciplines have) but not all are! mini-graphics-halloween-286715
(Ok, I know that smiley has nothing to do with my post but I love it so much I wanted a chance to use it!).
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redzip
Junior Member
Posts: 1,701
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Post by redzip on Oct 16, 2015 1:55:30 GMT
Please don't lump all dressage people as drama llamas - don't get me wrong, a lot are (more than it seems other disciplines have) but not all are! mini-graphics-halloween-286715 (Ok, I know that smiley has nothing to do with my post but I love it so much I wanted a chance to use it!). I don't honestly think that 'ALL' dressage people are drama llamas but this particular group of people are pretty ridiculous, and petty imo,
mostly, it seems the BO over there.
And I'm only speaking from my own personal experiences with them
I've quite honestly had my fill of their BS
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redzip
Junior Member
Posts: 1,701
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Post by redzip on Oct 16, 2015 2:57:46 GMT
I think what is most disheartening to me about all of this is that I have really, and earnestly, wanted to become involved with some new horse people since I've lost Red. And I have met some decent and nice people this past year in my training endeavors with Zippy.
I have also met some real jerks who make me have to be guarded and not enjoy my hobby in a comfortable way.
Sadly, that barn is beautiful on the outside, but ugly on the inside.
Not my problem, just unfortunate bc it is so close
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Post by horselady on Oct 16, 2015 19:25:44 GMT
All drama aside. the drama in this case is caused by the barn owner not knowing what she is doing. and perhaps the best thing is to move on to easier situations.  |
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mingiz
Junior Member
Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 3,320
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Post by mingiz on Oct 17, 2015 0:15:45 GMT
Red have you looked on FB for any riding groups in your area? I have met some great people here that way.
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redzip
Junior Member
Posts: 1,701
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Post by redzip on Oct 17, 2015 2:51:57 GMT
Red have you looked on FB for any riding groups in your area? I have met some great people here that way. Actually there are a few riding groups in this area, but some are kind of cliquish. I am reconnecting with a few of my old riding friends, have made some new friends,
and am making plans to trailride on a friend's nearby farm this fall.
Just have become quite 'turned off' by the antics of some of the local horse people in my immediate area
Good suggestion Mingiz,.., I also need to keep an open mind about certain people,., |
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hugs
Junior Member
Posts: 2,647
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Post by hugs on Nov 14, 2015 0:23:39 GMT
Oh my goodness what a mess RZip! I mean anytime you have to diagram and track fees you know there is something fishy. I hope I can avoid all of that crapola at my new barn-to-be. The BO is a trainer and gives lessons herself so I think that solves a lot of that junk
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redzip
Junior Member
Posts: 1,701
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Post by redzip on Nov 15, 2015 0:37:06 GMT
Oh my goodness what a mess RZip! I mean anytime you have to diagram and track fees you know there is something fishy. I hope I can avoid all of that crapola at my new barn-to-be. The BO is a trainer and gives lessons herself so I think that solves a lot of that junk I've just been taking my lessons at home,  , much easier than all the price increases, price changes, & fees, fees, fees! The BO over there is now 'desperately' advertising for a trainer, shes driven everyone away and no one wants to work there now. Good luck with your new barn!! |
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hugs
Junior Member
Posts: 2,647
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Post by hugs on Nov 15, 2015 2:31:53 GMT
Thanks it's tough to wait for Gerald to get his poop and motivation together to bring Zingers here. Of course I miss Peaches too we've learned so much together. I never appreciated what we had together until it was just Gerald and her.
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).
...
you. 
, much easier than all the price increases,