nhg
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Post by nhg on Aug 26, 2015 18:16:37 GMT
I've always believed that a proud cut gelding was one that had endured a botched gelding where some tissue was retained or, more likely, had an undescended testicle that the owner had opted not to have removed. Likely due to cost. They're actually not that common despite some people designating every badly behaving gelding as proud cut.
Last night I was at a barn where my friend boards. She has a TWH gelding that I sold her several years ago. When I bought him he was a stud and I had to have him gelded at 13 years old so I could take him to shows. One of the other boarders last night called him proud cut and I told her he wasn't. She said he was because he was gelded so late. I was there when he was gelded and I saw both huge testicles after. To me that's not proud cut, just gelded late. Which made no difference at all, by the way, he was actually a nicer stallion than he is a gelding. She and I got into a bit of an argument about it.
The BO is very opinionated and this boarder is friends with her so I think she picked up the opinion from her.
The BO gave my friend hell for riding in the arena last weekend after a clinic was supposed to be over. It was over at 5 pm but the clinician was still helping an attendee. My friend asked if it was okay to ride and the clinician said it was. Later the BO gave her hell for it saying that nobody can ride in the arena for an hour after a clinic is over. The BO also made a comment last night about my friend's bit that she uses on one of her other horses. You're using THAT bit on him? It was the exact bit I use. I suspect that she thought it was a Tom Thumb but it isn't. And he goes fine in it and seems to like it. While I was riding the TWH last night that I used to own she told me he was pacing. Which I already suspected because I could feel it and he's bad for it. When I said "oh, is he?" she started telling me what a pace was. Which she didn't even describe properly. I cut her off and said "yeah, I know, he used to be my horse". Damn, I hate it when people assume you're stupid for no reason at all. Did I ask what a pace was? This is why I hate offering unsolicited advice, it's easy to offend someone by just assuming they don't know what you're telling them. We boarded at a TWH breeder for years and have ridden lots of them and seen them trained. Not to mention that I was in several TWH clinics with mine. Thanks for your help Miss Quarter Horse owner.
On the other hand our BO thinks she knows a lot about TWHs because she owned one before. She didn't get any lessons to ride him or have anyone that knew anything about them at her barn. But she likes to tell the owner of a TWH who boards there what to do. And the owner thinks she knows because she owns a barn. I see that a lot. Boarders thinking that the BO knows everything because they own the place. Anyone with enough money can buy a boarding barn and have zero knowledge.
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mistersmom
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Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Aug 26, 2015 18:30:58 GMT
Wow, how aggravating is that??? I don't even know where to begin. Does you friend have regular issues with the BO or was the BO trying to be a show-off because you were there?
And no, your gelding does not sound like he was proud-cut, just cut late. I would have been tempted to pull out my phone and google proud cut - simply put it means "imperfectly castrated".
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Post by horselover4life on Aug 26, 2015 23:00:43 GMT
Your horse is not proud cut if both testicles were fully removed and all of that tissue extracted...
You're right and they are wrong!! 
You can't fix stupid and the know it all sometimes....
The below excerpts are from americashorsedaily.com/the-proud-cut-gelding/#.Vd5C5_SDpdU
The entire article can be read there....
Misconceptions abound as to the cause of stallion-like behavior in a horse that has supposedly been gelded. The term “proud-cut” has been used historically for many of these cases. Traditionally, proud-cut implies that a part of the epididymis (the sperm storage site located adjacent to the testis) was left in the horse at the time of castration
Normally, each testis and associated epididymis is removed during castration. However, since the epididymis does not produce testosterone, leaving the structure in a horse would not lead to a continuation of stallion-like behavior. Continual expression of stallion-like behavior following castration surgery in young horses is more likely due to failure to remove a testis. Stallions that are castrated at an older age might retain some stallion-like behaviors. Although the source of testosterone has been removed, some learned behaviors persist.
As for your TWH....
Again you can't fix stupid or a know-it-all.
I have only recently rode a Paso Fino for the first time in my life, a gaited horse.
A friend of my friend has a TWH and a MFT and has told me I can ride them at her home in her arena as they have a big stride and can cover ground quickly and hers take some getting use to to that motor and stride...can't wait to further my education and ride them, learn and ENJOY!!
 ....
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Post by horselady on Aug 27, 2015 0:48:00 GMT
She sounds like a person I would love to meet and have a one on one and she would finally see how stupid she is.
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nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
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Post by nhg on Aug 27, 2015 4:11:41 GMT
Thanks you guys! He doesn't act studdy anyway so I'm not sure why she even mentioned it. But he hates other horses and can only be kept with a select few. He was always used as a stud and never learned horse etiquette is what I think. Plus one of the first horses he was around once he'd waited the six month period before they can be with other horses, was a jerk horse who was mean to him. He also spent a summer at a guy's place who had nasty little ponies that were used for the wild pony race in rodeos and they kicked the crap out of him. He does get along with Prince, though.
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Post by horselover4life on Aug 27, 2015 10:00:31 GMT
I would wonder if they even know what "stud" behavior can truly be like??? 
Having "tendencies" and really acting "studdish" are very different, at least to me.
So, if smart you, as in the owner, use some precautions on who the horse is in company with, in your handling of him...the rest though really is, "He is a horse".
Takes his cues, many of them from those who handle him.
His behaviors are the work of his owner and what they allow, tolerate and don't know better to correct or wish to whine about. wag finger
Bet he would be different to handle if he were still yours...
I've handled proud cut, crypts, stallions and then breeding stallions.... those "wonders" haven't a clue sounds like!!
jmo...
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Post by carshon on Aug 27, 2015 13:11:02 GMT
Horse owners can be the worst know it alls - sorry you can into this
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redzip
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Post by redzip on Aug 27, 2015 13:57:40 GMT
Agree, 'proud cut' does not mean 'late cut',., and all horse are individuals. Believe me, I own an 'individual' right now,.., But I still love him!! apple And he's not alway lovable  I wish horse people could learn to 'just get along' with each other,.., After the weekend I had,., I feel your pain,.., needless drama seems to be the norm in some boarding barns. |
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nhg
Junior Member
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Post by nhg on Aug 27, 2015 17:15:00 GMT
Having any kind of animals seems to make people think they need to tell you how to handle them. But horses seem to be the worst. I only interject if someone is doing something dangerous or cruel or if they really look like they're struggling and could use some help. And with mostly boarding I've seen people do some really stupid stuff. And have some really stupid ideas. I really hate it when they pass their stupid ideas on.
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Aug 27, 2015 20:13:33 GMT
I feel the same way as you about interjecting. In fact, I think the last time I did was about 3 years ago at one of the CTRs. I noticed that this lady had her bit in backwards and I debated for at least 10 minutes to say something to her. I finally decided to just ask if she realized it was in backwards rather than going up point blank and telling her. She didn't realize and was happy that I pointed it out to her. But for the most part, I stay out of people's business (as I appreciate them staying out of mine unless I ask).
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redzip
Junior Member
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Post by redzip on Aug 27, 2015 20:29:17 GMT
I know this thread is called 'proud cut gelding', but since we are talking about people, boarding barns, horse ownership, and the prevailing attitudes that go with all that,., my thoughts go to this,.., Many horse people are highly competitive, and not just from a competition/horse show standpoint. The prevailing attitudes are often just downright competitive, and there is so much 'brain wash' that goes with all that. I mentioned this ^ to my (now leaving) instructor, when we were discussing my horrible weekend at the clinic. Often newbie horse owners are 'sucked in' bc they want to do well competing, or have their CHILDREN do well competing, and 'trust beyond question' what some 'would be' 'guru horse trainer' tells them. I think thats where that blindness comes in,., that one way is the only way,.., Exactly what we discussed the other day. This ^^ to the detriment of the horse's well being as well. I mean when I saw that little girl spurring, and spurring that poor horse, and holding him back at the same time,.., Uggggg! It was hard to watch. The child didn't have any 'feel' for riding, or a solid seat, and only has been riding 6 months according to my instructor, and riding with, AND USING, a whip and spurs. Finally Bitcha made her drop the whip,.., it was so unprofessional, and the kid should not have had any of that STUFF. Grumble,...,  But, point being,., so many philosophies on training, care, blah, blah, that its hard not to create conflict. And I think so much of it comes from that desire to win, same as that desire to be right, regardless of the animal. I also think people get 'taken in' by the idea that horses are glamorous, yet truly if they aren't being treated as some glamorous accessory, they are being abused! I get aggravated by the industry for these kinds of perceptions^ Does that make sense ??  |
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nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
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Post by nhg on Aug 28, 2015 16:12:44 GMT
MM, that's funny. Several years ago I saw a bridle hanging in the tack room where we used to board that had the bit on backwards. I have no idea whose it was and still don't but I switched it around.
Red, I totally agree. There are a few problems with people and horses. One is when they put all of their faith in one trainer or other supposedly helpful horse person, another is that they don't realize there's more than one way to get a result and abuse should not be an option, another is that a horse is a big animal and it's so cool to be able to get it to do whatever they want and they don't want someone else to tell them how to do it, they want to be the big hero. So many reasons and just as many why they shouldn't even have a horse. I really like our BO but I wish she knew more than she does because so many of the boarders think she knows everything.
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redzip
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Post by redzip on Aug 28, 2015 17:07:54 GMT
Not to mention, nhg, horses are 'THINKING' animals,., they have a mind of their own when it comes to some things. Albeit LOL, its a walnut sized brain, but none the less, its got its own thoughts about stuff  afraid |
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Post by horselover4life on Aug 28, 2015 17:10:37 GMT
Not to mention, nhg, horses are 'THINKING' animals,., they have a mind of their own when it comes to some things. Albeit LOL, its a walnut sized brain, but none the less, its got its own thoughts about stuff afraid
Dead on red, dead on!!!! 
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Post by horselady on Aug 28, 2015 20:26:19 GMT
Not to mention, nhg, horses are 'THINKING' animals,., they have a mind of their own when it comes to some things. Albeit LOL, its a walnut sized brain, but none the less, its got its own thoughts about stuff afraid
Dead on red, dead on!!!!
I realize that horses think and some are smarter than others but they are mostly reactive in their decisions. Food??? oh let me run and push you down. OH the """blue tarp''' ? hahhhhh let me run away. and """oh""" there is a mare around who smells like she is all sexy,,, let me run thru the fence and jump the car to get to her >>>>"""" sorry you are in the way, lol but !!!! wait.... i am a gelding and if i catch up to her what am i going to do. """" |
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afraid