nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429 
|
Post by nhg on Jun 3, 2015 3:29:14 GMT
My friend just called me and she's surprised by what a fellow rider told her. My friend has three horses and they can all do turns on the hind, turns on the forehand, sidepass, rollbacks, all that stuff. The other rider told her that English riders don't do those things, they just ride. This woman rides English. Is this true? There must be something like that in the English world. I know we both do the two-track but in English riding it has a different name that I can't remember right now. I'm really curious and have never really thought about this before. I've taken English lessons in the past and the only thing I learned different is posting- rise and fall with the leg on the wall- and I'd also learned posting when I took western riding lessons when I was a kid. I do post to save my horse's back if I want a quick trot but in the show ring we western riders would never post. If you English riders do something we don't or is similar to western riding, what is it? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 3:43:22 GMT
Only the really terrible English riders don't teach their horses those things. Usually these are the same people who don't believe in flatwork and so on and so forth. Benny does know or will know how to do all the things you mentioned. I freely admit I don't know what a two track is, but I would anticipate it is likely similar to a shoulder in or Travers. (Spelling??) I think it's just a part of having a well rounded horse and these things are all important. Hope that helps  |
|
nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
|
Post by nhg on Jun 3, 2015 4:08:36 GMT
Two track is where their body position is straight ahead but the horse is actually moving ahead at an angle. I'm not sure that makes any sense and I'm too stupid to post an example. Thanks for the response Apollo!
|
|
leli
New Member
Posts: 57
|
Post by leli on Jun 3, 2015 4:39:09 GMT
I think leg yielding/half passing would be what you're talking about...?
|
|
|
|
Post by horselover4life on Jun 3, 2015 10:16:03 GMT
nhg.....
That other rider has feathers for brains! 
There are many similarities between English and western riding, especially what the horse is required to do.
Some names are different although the actual maneuver is the same or near-so.
Rider positioning is different because of the saddle configuration, and where English does a posting trot western will sit to a jog.....still a trotting gait, but slower, less knee action and usually not ground covering stride length and it is sat not posted to.
Biggest thing I see different is English riders ride with contact always and a western rider rides with contact but through a slacked rein usually with a shank bit. Where in English we use more direct rein for direction, western uses indirect reins with neck reining done correctly.
Bottom line though is both riding disciplines of horse have ridden with contact.
When you get to the specialty classes of riding is where you will see larger differences...like a slide-stop in reining versus a horse jumping oxers and verticals...
The basics though are basics...it is what the rider knows and can covey to their mount and how clearly that sets many apart.
It is the advanced education of the horse that makes a "English" or "western" horse...
Let us ask a actual trainer and see what the answer is...
HEY HL....what do you say?
|
|
mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
|
Post by mistersmom on Jun 3, 2015 15:49:32 GMT
Well hl4l once again explained everything better than I could!
When I started taking lessons, it was with a dressage trainer. So I quickly learned much more than walk and trot (we never did progress to the canter much with her, too much to learn before that) - turn on haunches/forehand, shoulder in/out, passage, Spanish walk, half pass, etc. I think folks who ride English just jumping don't really do things like this but imo, the horse should be taught more than the basic movements no matter what discipline or saddle is on their back.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 16:21:34 GMT
Two track is where their body position is straight ahead but the horse is actually moving ahead at an angle. I'm not sure that makes any sense and I'm too stupid to post an example. Thanks for the response Apollo! I agree with Leli, that sounds like a leg yield or a half pass.
I also agree with what HL4L said about it being very similar on a basic level and then branching out as you get to the higher levels of each particular discipline. Before his injury Apollo could do a canter pirouette, if I was balanced and asked correctly, but there is no amount of training that could make him spin like a reiner!
I dabbled in some reining as cross training for a little morgan X QH jumper I used to own. Before he had been a jumper he had been trained to level 2 dressage. We were never any good at reining, but because of all the lateral work and getting him to move off the leg and seat involved both with that and the dressage, he was one of the easiest and handiest horses I have ever had on course. He could turn on a dime, and it was so refreshing to be able to 'sit' and hold for a distance rather than having to physically grab and hold for a distance (something I see more and more frequently, especially in the jumpers).
For years I boarded at a western barn back home. They were mostly into barrels and reining. I learned a TON there, and a lot of it if not all of it I was able to take and apply to jumping. I really do think that they are very similar on a basic level. It is just that many people find the finer points of flat work 'boring' and choose to ignore them.
|
|
|
|
Post by horselover4life on Jun 3, 2015 19:33:57 GMT
Now see mm...
All those "dressage" movements I learned as a hunter rider.
My "base" of riding is classical training...but for the Hunter discipline used.
Now, am I proficient in those "dressage" moves like a dressage rider..NO!
I was taught them, can do them, recognize them being done and why...but are mine "spit and polished" as a dressage rider needs...no!
It is amazing how much better you can ride a jump course if you can apply some of that training in making distances between fences work effortlessly... 
Effortlessly my foot....as in anything "HORSE",...it takes a huge commitment and time to learn and even longer to be able to execute correctly and understand when and why to apply that piece of knowledge.
As Apollo said, so much knowledge can be used cross-discipline and benefit many..... 
|
|
nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
|
Post by nhg on Jun 4, 2015 3:02:19 GMT
Thanks for the responses everyone!
|
|
|
|
Post by horselady on Jun 4, 2015 11:45:24 GMT
Why is it some snooty people always say stupid things and not even know what they are talking about, way back when the horse was first used to carry a burden on it's back it was taught by repetition to move away from pressure and for a specific job. each country and decipline (job) has it's horses moving in a certain way so that job is easier for humans. that is where the cutting horse comes in with the sliding stops and reining. BUT if you look at ancient times riders are doing that also with smaller saddles and less bulk under them. it was a human that decided to carry their household on their saddle so all the ties and weight was carried by the horse. if you look at dressage and look at reining and fast forward the dressage and slow down the reining you have the same style. in fact most western riders are teaching dressage as it says the horse is being built on the hind end and is having less leg breakdowns. and the dressage riders are bringing the sliding stops and up and down hill work into their programs of training, of course the outfits are different and the gear is also. but the human is still getting the end result in their horses. a work ethic and balanced control. my other question is. have a western rider ride an english horse over some jumps and a english jumper doing some reining. i bet that would be ahoot. Guy McClean has done it and so has cris cox. and pat parelli and their reactions were priceless. they all have a greater respect for the other dicipline. oh and nhg. yes english riders do all of the manuvers . and so do western, all but the sliding stops at great speeds.(yet again i have been on horses going over jumps who just decided to stop before going over that jump ...  isn't that a sliding stop?  ? lol |
|
mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
|
Post by mistersmom on Jun 4, 2015 15:43:27 GMT
Well said HL.  And yes, if that qualifies as a sliding stop, I have done my fair share of those as well!  |
|
nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
|
Post by nhg on Jun 4, 2015 18:21:36 GMT
HL, you're funny! Yes, that would be a sliding stop!
|
|
|
|
Post by horselady on Jun 4, 2015 19:53:30 GMT
Next time the conversation comes up about english versus western or the english rider does more. ask them if their horse knows the levad. or capriole, or piaffee. and watch their mouth open wondering what you are talking about. and than go home and google it. bet they do not know what each is.
|
|
|
|
Post by Shelly on Jun 6, 2015 14:52:33 GMT
I'm really enjoying all the comments on this post but I definitely have to give my input on this one! Of course everything depends on the level or riding your at. In my lessons I have done turns on the forehand and haunches. Not much but we have. We do a ton of leg yielding and my coach has also been getting us to do haunches in an out on the flats. It really helps you have a much more responsive horse when your out there on a course. I don't know if a "reverse" is the same for english and western, but all I know if that if you have a reverse on a course it can definitely be challenging!!! (for me the most fun though! I love them!!) My last lesson was a lot of work. For the jumping portion my coach focused on us figuring out our distances between jumps and making us add and take away strides between two jumps. The spread was set up as an open 7 stride. Collected I managed to fit in 9 strides and open we fit in 6. It was really neat for me because it really made me realize how much you can do with a proper seat. As for the sliding stops... So far for the few Equitation courses I have done, I had to open up my stride to get the right amount of strides in my last line of two jumps, then you have barely 20-30 feed to land and come to a complete halt after a course. May not be a sliding stop but I feel as if it should almost count Nothing like trying to get your horse to gallop to get your jumps right to have to come to a full stop before exiting the ring right after. I believe that it doesn't matter what discipline you do there IS a ton of refining and training you HAVE to do to get there. I feel as if the basics very similar and depending what your choosing to do certain techniques may need to be more refined compared to others. jmo |
|
isn't that a sliding stop?
? lol
