Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
|
Post by Lipizzan on Jan 27, 2015 14:33:29 GMT
Last few weeks I have been working with Gaetana on barn sour behaviour. She has that thing that she will always hurry up home, or if we are on the field behinde the barn, she will turn her head towards barn, or when we are going in that direction she will be all nervous and fast moving. I have been working with her on that field because she is worst there. It is field where she and other horses graze during the summer so she thinks it is her play area. We are doing well, I try to keep her on loose rain, when she excelerate I would make a small circle and point her in the same direction with loose rain, if she repeat, I repeat as well. Tomorow I will try to make a video. The main issue with her is that if she is going in opossite way of the barn, she will go asaide with her body, I try to keep her head straight, but she is all twisted, I don't know how to explain. I tried to push her with my legs, depending on what way we are going, but she seem not to give a s***. First couple of days, she would move like dead going away from barn, and running back, I was holding her so tight my arms hurted. Now she is more relaxed, but still you can tell she is going faster home, but on a loose rain completely. The thing that we finished is sanding by the gate of the field, she will stand still if asked. Comments and advice are welcome.... :)
|
|
mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
|
Post by mistersmom on Jan 27, 2015 16:03:19 GMT
I think you are doing the right thing by circling her every time she speeds up when going home. As for her moving around when going away from the barn - you could also try circles or making her move even more laterally. Anything to get her attention on you and not where she is. Also, don't always get off by the gate at the barn. Get off somewhere different each time so she doesn't associate the gate with the end of her work. Or perhaps go through the gate and do some hard work near the barn then some nice quiet walking away from the barn. It's the whole "make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard" sort of thinking. I'm rambling, perhaps someone else can come along and give you some better ideas.
|
|
Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
|
Barn sour
Jan 27, 2015 16:28:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by Lipizzan on Jan 27, 2015 16:28:39 GMT
I like the idea of doing the hard work close to barn and dismounting always in different place, I will do that from now on. The close area around the barn is dirt so there is unbelivable mud and I just can't work her there for now, until it gets little bit sun, so it dry's out. Keeping her concentrated is the bigest issue now.
|
|
mingiz
Junior Member
Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 3,320
|
Post by mingiz on Jan 27, 2015 20:52:48 GMT
Agree with MM. Lots of circles when she doesn't listen. You may get dizzy from it but in the long run she will get the idea that she isn't going to get her way. Maybe even dismount away from the barn and walk her to it. Barn sour horses are a lot to handle at times and a lot of work for their rider...But it sounds like you have a good handle on it..
|
|
Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
|
Post by Lipizzan on Jan 27, 2015 21:30:52 GMT
She has been always like that. Just before I did not have courage to tell my father that he has not done a good job with her. Now that I am planing to singh her over on my name I would like to try corect all the mistakes he made, but he still does not think there is something wrong with her. He thinks if he can do it by force it is fine. That is why she is so hard on the bit at times. I also try to soften her on the bit by doing some exercices like flexing her head to her sholder, also giving presure when sve trys to excelerate and then relising when she does as asked. My goal is at some point to dich the bit. Hopefully I will move out in a year or two so I will have my own space to work on her from ground. For now we are taking one step at the time.
|
|
|
Post by Shelly on Jan 27, 2015 21:34:12 GMT
Maybe you can try doing some lateral work with her? Ex; leg yielding, circles, ect. Personally one of my favourite exercises is getting the horse to leg yield on a circle slowly making it bigger and once you have a nice tight circle get them to leg yield out. I find with horse's with separation issues and being sour often if you keep their mind occupied (which is why i find lateral work is great for!) they usually have less time to think about fighting you. Excited to see your video
|
|
Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
|
Barn sour
Jan 27, 2015 22:11:44 GMT
via mobile
Post by Lipizzan on Jan 27, 2015 22:11:44 GMT
I am not quite sure what yielding means?
|
|
|
Post by horselover4life on Jan 27, 2015 22:45:28 GMT
I am not quite sure what yielding means? I think she is referring to side-passing, 2-tracking her as she moves....keeping her mind as busy as her body. Yielding is also moving away from your leg... Shoulder in, haunches out and even more difficult is shoulder out and haunches in as it is opposite what most request so she will truly need to work on it. Works with a counter-canter too on a circle....but you know better than to canter toward home!
I have found that when a horse rushes home, a stop, stand and reverse of several steps catches their attention pretty quick back to you. Not harshly, not long time in doing this but if pulling against you, do a halt and back 3 steps....It might take you some time to get home but she is smart and will figure it out real quick to stop the rushing. She'll build some butt muscling too.
Regardless of the mud situation you have to vary your dismount location or you will make her anticipation to get home and that "spot" much worse.
QUESTION.... If she is pulling against you, accelerating... What happens if you drop her? Let her go and not give her resistance or something to lean on? Will she "fall on her face"....Will she gather herself up and correct her way of going? If she is resisting you this much is she pushing from behind or being heavy on her forehand? Sometimes setting them on their butt stops the rushing, sometimes not. If you decide to try the "dropping her" {just letting go of any rein pressure} expect her to shoot forward as she catches herself. Does she slow if you sit deep in the saddle or on her back? Sitting on her back muscle like that should put the brakes on...least with my idiot horse I had it did...
just some thoughts....
|
|
|
Post by ladymcts on Jan 28, 2015 5:43:28 GMT
I am not quite sure what yielding means? Yield means to give way, submit, relent. People will often talk about "yielding to pressure" with horses. For instance if you stand with a horse and pull the lead rope toward you, you should expect the horse to yield his head toward you, rather than to resist against that rope and pull back against it. Or they might talk about "leg yielding," meaning you apply one leg of pressure to the side of the horse, expecting the horse to give way, either bending around that leg, or moving away from that leg in the opposite direction. In your case, where you had a horse you were trying to keep straight but she was all twisted, you said you were trying to push with your legs but she wasn't listening. So she was not yielding.
|
|
Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
|
Post by Lipizzan on Jan 28, 2015 9:44:49 GMT
I am not quite sure what yielding means? I think she is referring to side-passing, 2-tracking her as she moves....keeping her mind as busy as her body. Yielding is also moving away from your leg... Shoulder in, haunches out and even more difficult is shoulder out and haunches in as it is opposite what most request so she will truly need to work on it. Works with a counter-canter too on a circle....but you know better than to canter toward home!
I have found that when a horse rushes home, a stop, stand and reverse of several steps catches their attention pretty quick back to you. Not harshly, not long time in doing this but if pulling against you, do a halt and back 3 steps....It might take you some time to get home but she is smart and will figure it out real quick to stop the rushing. She'll build some butt muscling too.
Regardless of the mud situation you have to vary your dismount location or you will make her anticipation to get home and that "spot" much worse.
QUESTION.... If she is pulling against you, accelerating... What happens if you drop her? Let her go and not give her resistance or something to lean on? Will she "fall on her face"....Will she gather herself up and correct her way of going? If she is resisting you this much is she pushing from behind or being heavy on her forehand? Sometimes setting them on their butt stops the rushing, sometimes not. If you decide to try the "dropping her" {just letting go of any rein pressure} expect her to shoot forward as she catches herself. Does she slow if you sit deep in the saddle or on her back? Sitting on her back muscle like that should put the brakes on...least with my idiot horse I had it did...
just some thoughts....
H4L, you shure do use some big words. hh I will try to respond to your comment. If she is accelerating and I do not respond with nothing, she will run to the barn, and then if I let her run, it is hard to stop her at that point. As I said she does not have that much respect for a bit. Maybe some other people would put her a bigger bit(I ride on a simple snaffle), but I am a no no for that. I want to dich the bit at some point. I don't want nothing to be done by pain. I ride her bareback for now, I use saddles only if I am going on a trail or will do canter/gallop. We don't do much trot either, as I am trying to make her go home as calm as possible. She does slown down or stop when I lean back and say a word that I use for stopping and she will stopp, but will not use that signal for slowing down. Also she does not react to "yielding", or my leg pressure, that is something I would have to work on really hard, because I know how much it is important, maybe a stick would help?! I know that seems like "what a hell did you teach that horse if she does not know even basics?" But really I am not that type of a person who is affraid of admitting that they did wrong. Most part I blame my dad for her, because she was our first horse(10 moths when she came- now 11 yro) and he did the best way she knewed. It is not an excuse for me. I just hope a older horse can be restarted?
|
|
|
Post by horselover4life on Jan 28, 2015 11:12:27 GMT
Of course a older horse can be restarted. It may just take some extra time because of their age they have been allowed to do it "wrong/differently" for a longer time. Many horses have what are called "holes" in their training....mine do. No shame in that, it is something to work on together, to improve, is how I look at it. She is not dangerous, but is stubborn, opinionated, willful and thick-skulled, "her way" attitude.... sounds like many a horse, mare or not. The secret of your mare is changing her opinion so she thinks it is "her way".... it is however, "Your Way!"
I don't go for "more bit" either but will try a different style of that bit. There are more than 1 type of simple snaffle to consider for her sake too... Instead of a single joint try a 2 joint {french link}** bit. A different diameter mouthpiece. Not going heavier but using different areas of the mouth, the palate, she may respond to better.
I don't do or go for pain either....has it ever occurred to you though that bareback you must grip to stay on and balanced....she may also be running from confusion with that leg pressure she feels. I know of no one that not use their legs quite a bit when riding bareback. Especially if being pulled against, you must anchor yourself to hold her back and direct her...that can only be done with your legs assistance and pretty strongly applied to I would think.
No excuses, but maybe a somewhat different way to look at your mare and how she rides for you.... Can it be changed to soft and accepting, SURE.... it takes time though, mush time and patience. Those things I think you have a great amount of.
**there is also a Bristol Bit which is a variation of the 2 joint french link but the center "lozenge" is square edged and exerts more pressure, force on the tongue than the rounded, softer french link. The Bristol is a stronger bit for sure imo... As with any bit, it can be harsh or not depending much upon the hands holding the reins.**
|
|
Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
|
Post by Lipizzan on Jan 28, 2015 12:02:56 GMT
Oh she is stubborn horse that is for sure. I like what you said abut changing her opinion so that she thinks her way is my way. Also , you might be right about the bit... The thing that I know is that bareback is not part of the problem, because she does the same way being saddled. Trust me. I am not saying I am a "good rider", but I really do know how to balance my self bareback, I learned how to ride bareback long before I got to the saddle. It does take a lot of time, but as I sad she will be my horse as long as she is alive, I will do my all, to make her as best as she can be. For her own good, not for mine. Ridng is not that important to me, when it comes to horses. We did the work again today, I said I would make a video, but everyone was "buisy" so no one could film me. I done some of the thing suggested like working har by the barn, although it is mud, I did work her, little bit of a trot and that was enough because mud made it more difficult for her, I done it twice and bring her back to the field, third time she was going home calm. :D jeejjj Flexing her is making me nuts, she will bend her head on the left side, but wont give up on the right, she is very stiff on the right side. All in all we made a good progres today, and I am happy with my girl.
|
|
mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
|
Post by mistersmom on Jan 28, 2015 13:13:20 GMT
Sounds like she is already starting to understand that rushing home only means more work. Go for you. Keep up the good work and stay consistent with what you are doing.
|
|
|
Post by lorddaxter on Jan 28, 2015 17:40:28 GMT
Try making her go backwards in the direction she wants to go, then she will have to think about it, turn her around and if she rushes again just keep doing it:)
|
|
|
Post by Shelly on Jan 28, 2015 22:58:04 GMT
I'm glad you guys made some progress today! Everything will come together with time. She just might be the type of horse that needs to be worked on a regular basis to stay in the groove of things.
I know my moms horse is like that, If you ride her 3x a week or more she's and angel. Less then that.. well not so much lol
|
|
|
Post by horselady on Jan 29, 2015 1:16:29 GMT
Progress in small steps is always the best. some horses just do not get it. and we need to allow them to understand what we ask of them in small steps. sometimes circles work other times like lordd has said going backwards works. and i have taken them back out away from the barn and than turned them in circles and started back towards home. as soon as she gets jittery and you think and feel she is getting uptight than turn her and go away again. after a while she will realize that going home at your pace will eventually work. this could take days for her to figure out. so do not try to accomplish it in one or two or three lessons. and when you circle,just a note. if she is stiff on the right than make her go to the right,
|
|
Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
|
Post by Lipizzan on Jan 29, 2015 9:30:17 GMT
Today I will work her on that right side to relax. You guys, thankse for the support and advice. It is so much easier when someone is by your side in anu situation and wiling to help. :-)
|
|
Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
|
Post by Lipizzan on Jan 29, 2015 14:54:40 GMT
She was naughty today at first. Jumped twice going back home, like a goat on all four Later we went outside the field to the road, she was hmm ok I guess, not the best, but not the worst. Well there will be a lot more good and bad days, but I enjoy spending time with her every day for a change(until now I have been mostly riding my studs-they seem to be much more cooperative :/) She is great when riding trails with other horses, and riding in pairs, she is like a dream, but when I go riding myself I usually take the boys. No more cutting corners, will stick with her until she improves.
|
|
|
Post by Shelly on Jan 29, 2015 18:12:23 GMT
Keep up the good work!! It's really hard working with horses that have heard bound issues but it sounds like you're on the right track You should take a picture of her!! I love seeing your horses they are just so beautiful!!
|
|
Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
|
Post by Lipizzan on Jan 29, 2015 18:26:12 GMT
Thank you Shelly, this is my precious mare, a naughty one, but still precious She is a Lipizzaner. Would not trade her for 10 perfect trained horses!! adult photo sharingimage hosting
|
|