hugs
Junior Member
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Post by hugs on Dec 22, 2014 0:22:36 GMT
I think a horse can figure out the difference between nosing into your space when, for example, you're leading them somewhere. We all have where we want our horses to be and if we're consistent then they figure it out. I use "elbow" distance, because I always have my right elbow with me and its handy to use as a guide.
But if we're standing near each other and I'm petting Peaches and my she bends her neck and touches me with her nose, is that invading my space or are we loving on each other? Peach doesn't push me, she isn't nibbling on me, so why isn't that okay? Why would that be confusing? Well I guess it is confusing to me because I don't know why it isn't okay?
What rule(s) do you have?
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Post by horselover4life on Dec 22, 2014 1:02:32 GMT
I think the difference you need to recognize is when you are loving on Peach you have invited her into your space, so she advances.
When you are leading her she needs to keep a respectful distance clearly enforced by you currently "with that elbow" ....
You must always portray yourself as the leader to Peach.
Clear and concise so she not be confused...
That follows through with all handling whether astride or on the ground...the horse takes their cue from you that you are leader and steps in line not out of it and be punished by the "lead mare" for disobedience, what ever that punishment may be.
The word consistent is a very accurate one....that is what you strive for.
The "leadership" thing for some is natural, for others it must be a learned trait over time.
We, humans as "the leader" once we become "queen bee" the herd hierarchy changes and the horses fall into their rightful place as underling not your superior or equal.
884530..............
I have several rules.
Think the biggest one though is they respect me, my space and my authority. In return I will keep them safe from harm whether astride or on the ground.
This is more priority than any other and never changes is intensity....a must it is when I handle any horse, mine or someone elses.
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hugs
Junior Member
Posts: 2,647
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Post by hugs on Dec 22, 2014 1:16:47 GMT
Thanks for saying all of that so well. I think you're also saying that a horse can figure out the difference between when they are being invited and when they aren't, right?
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Post by diamondgirl on Dec 22, 2014 1:54:15 GMT
I would be the last person to be qualified to give anyone advise on respect.
Example; Last year, or maybe the year before, we were having a horrible winter storm. You know the kind. Starts with rain, and wind then switches to  and more wind. I was worried about the fence, so I went out with a flashlight to check it. I was standing beside the fence trying to see it through the binding , when a huge head appeared on my shoulder. Once I got over being startled, I thought it was funny, to see her looking intently down the fence with me. I supposed I should have insisted that she respect my space, but,,, I scratched her under her chin, and asked her if the fence looked ok to her. My error was made apparent, when she stuck her nose in my face, exhaled, and steamed up my glasses, to where I couldn't see anything.
I can't stop wanting to have a relationship with my horses. I do want them to be respectful, but I love the way they are so friendly. I wish I knew how to have both respect, and friendship, and still be safe. |
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Post by horselover4life on Dec 22, 2014 1:55:42 GMT
Simply... YES!
Your body language that you send forth speaks words of invitation or keep a distance more than any words from your mouth can.
Subtle signs of how you move, hold your arm and body in general and they can sense your "attitude" just by you being you.
The subtle things a horse does with their eyes, ears, nose, mouth and how they hold and move their body are their body English speaking to you.
When people become aware and sensitive to subtle changes in their bodies and the horse in yours a true partnership starts to form.
I can tell my sons horse is going to be a jerk before he starts being a jerk by how he swivels his ears, curls his nostril and watches with his eye....he speaks his language.
It is my job to interpret and change his attitude and language to acceptable or I pay the price....called face plant if I am astride usually. 
You are not the only one learning...It IS a ongoing experience.
The day we as equestrians decide we no longer need to learn is the day you get hurt and hurt badly....
jmo!
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hugs
Junior Member
Posts: 2,647
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Post by hugs on Dec 22, 2014 13:29:22 GMT
I opened up this conversation, not because I didn't have an opinion on it, and even better than that, direct, empirical evidence to say, horses can tell the difference between an invitation and invasion.
Yesterday I was able to watch Andrea give Peaches her lesson. Andrea was pretty adamant that I not allow Peaches to come into my space, invade my space because it was disrespectful and hazarded safety. That I could work with her for an hour, keeping her from invading my space and disrespectful, and one missed opportunity to uphold that respect would undo all of the prior work.
Which is true
But I didn't want to have the kind of relationship with my horse where Peaches would never be able to show me how much she cares about me. And so I needed to see if others agreed with me. I think it would have been really difficult for me to accept the idea that it was always disrespectful for my horse to reach out to me.
In fact, I can tell when Peaches reaches out to me, gets too close, because she is feeling insecure. In those cases I keep her out of my space, showing her that she is okay by herself, but then take a break from time to time to stop and pet her, allow her to relax and get comfort and see how indeed she is okay, and then go out again. Then I also choose to stop and let her relax without giving in to her discomfort but allow her a chance to comfort herself.
Never say never and never say always
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Dec 22, 2014 14:24:33 GMT
I agree that a horse should not invaded your space unless you ok that "invasion". I also think it has a lot to do with how that horse is behaving before being invited in. I would never invite Mister into my space if he was acting like a butthead. There's too much chance of someone (me) getting hurt. Now if he's calm and collected and respectful, sure, come see me for a scratch or two.
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hugs
Junior Member
Posts: 2,647
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Post by hugs on Dec 22, 2014 15:45:06 GMT
Totally agree with you MM. I don't reward bad behavior. Although you know, I didn't realize all the subtle ways I would reinforce behavior I didn't want, not necessarily bad, but like nervous nelly stuff, it isn't bad, its entirely understandable and for now unavoidable, but to pay attention to it is to reinforce it. I can't "fix" it by attending to it. Now being scared one must create more distance from the scary object, that is humane but that is not the same as comforting the scared horse.
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Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
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Post by Lipizzan on Dec 25, 2014 13:36:42 GMT
Horse not invading your space is one of the first things he or she have to learn. But I don't mind horse coming to me in the pasture and showing his or hers affection. I am only demand respecting my space when I am leading or working with a horse, That way, horse will learn also, not to be to pushy even when free at pasture.
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hugs
Junior Member
Posts: 2,647
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Post by hugs on Dec 25, 2014 15:23:33 GMT
I agree Lipizzan. Work and play are separate.
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and more wind. I was worried about the fence, so I went out with a flashlight to check it. I was standing beside the fence trying to see it through the binding 
