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Post by ladymcts on Feb 25, 2015 13:52:59 GMT
Once again, I cannot express how much I love this horse.
He's had time off since September. I wasn't really even working him with lunging or groundwork like I kept saying I would\should. He's such a people oriented horse, so that was a major failure on my part.
But he's now been given the all-clear by vets for riding. He's been putting on enough weight that he's looking a tad on the fat side. His hooves are even FINALLY starting to get some concavity to them so he's not walking on the soles of his feet all the time. His neurological symptoms of "asymmetric ataxia" are now significantly reduced - not gone completely but not as bad as they were in September. If I cross one leg over the other in front, he'll right himself immediately with the left, but when doing the right he thinks about it, and drags it over eventually. But the sensitivity I was seeing on his back is gone. No riding for several months may also have helped that story, but at the time he was sensitive, it was not just pressure points where the sad.dle hit, it was a distinctly more sensitive reaction on the right side of the spine than the left. This is also reduced.
The magic wonder drug that's done all this? Vitamin E. I didn't want to believe it, but 90 days on a daily megadose and almost 60 more on half that daily, and we have all these amazing results. Yay!
So I got out my newish sad.dle. Remember I mentioned that back sensitivity ... even tho he was not sensitive right on the exact spots his old sad.dle touched, I still thought it was looking too tight on him, needing replacement. So I got a new-used sad.dle on eBay that for all I think I know about sad.dles really seemed to fit well. It conformed to his shoulder area and back all along, no bridging, looked spot-on, with maybe just a hint of needing to be wider when looking at his barrel further down from the seat, kind of where he's got little fat pads now on his shoulders.
Anyhoo, Saturday I had a lesson with him in this new sad.dle, third one ever riding in it. He was a royal turd. He didn't really want to go forward. He was squirrelly, dodging left and right, and rubbing me on the wall if I'd let him get away with it. Just seemed like I was correcting\admonishing him every minute or two. To me squirrelly just puts it best, like he won't go straight, won't listen, won't much of anything. So for about 15 minutes we did walking warmup, serpentines, and I felt every now and then he would do this weird thing where all of a sudden I felt I was being launched upward, like he was taking big galumpy steps, and I was riding an elephant or a camel for about 2-5 strides, then back to normal. Trainer said he was arching his back, which is often a sign that something doesn't feel good.
We tried only a little bit of trotting either direction. And once again he just felt wiggly and resistant.
Thankfully, the trainer was willing to hang with me, even tho our lesson time was over, and urged me to go ahead and grab his old sad.dle, that one I was so sure wasn't fitting and was causing him some back troubles back in August\September.
Holy freakin' cow, he was like a whole new horse. He just moved off so easily and willingly, straight as could be, happy to get up into a trot. He felt like a real horse again, not a squirrelly circus ride!
*sigh*
So once again I am schooled on how little I know about sad.dles, and once again I have to learn that sad.dle fit is everything. I think back to the days that Jacques acted this way but he was my very first horse and I was relying on multiple vets, trainers, and barn manager all telling me his sad.dle fit 'fine' even tho the animal was pinning his ears and bucking me off every time I got into it. I sure can see how if my trainer had not urged me to get the other sad.dle, this could have easily become a rider-against-horse battle that would've ended in a very sour critter doing anything he could to unseat me.
And once again I love my horse. If being squirrelly and resistant is the worst he has to offer when he's in pain, I sure do love him!!!
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Post by carshon on Feb 25, 2015 14:25:36 GMT
OH lady! At least the end of the ride was good and Reggie sounds like he is feeling so much better! How did you stumble on the fact that it was a Vit E deficiency? The whole saddle fit thing is such a mystery and no one is really an expert! I tried recently to have a session with Julie from West 20 saddle shop- they feature her at the Midwest Horse Fair - willing to pay a decent amount for a saddle fit session and was told that she does not do saddle fit sessions unless you are buying a saddle from her. I was so disapointed. Just wanted to put my fears to rest once and for all - and I cannot afford to buy another saddle!
So happy to read this post - and I hope you continue to have great lessons. Summer riding season is coming! (I hope )
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Post by diamondgirl on Feb 25, 2015 18:12:17 GMT
Lady, I have a pair of dress boots. They are the right size, the right width, and they are soooo cute. I put them on, and they don't feel to bad at all. Then I stand up. Oh my!! They aren't comfortable at all, and the longer I wear them the worse they feel. I wonder if it is the same with saddles, as it is with women and shoes.
Those cute boots look like they should fit me, and they do, but they also hurt my feet. I wonder how many horses that are labeled with behavioral problems, really just have saddle fit issues.
I am really glad you found out that Reggie liked his old saddle, but I am not sure you should think you are lacking, in saddle fit knowledge. Just like shoes. Even if everything about them says they should fit, it doesn't mean that they are a comfortable fit. |
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Post by ladymcts on Feb 25, 2015 20:56:18 GMT
Hah, diamondgirl, you're so right! I have a pair like that too, only it's summer sandals. They are by "Keen" which is guess is a good brand. I was fairly new in a job and feeling pretty good about myself and went out to buy dress shoes. Tried on the keens, liked them a lot said "I'll take them" without realizing they were over $100. *choke* But I was too embarrassed to back out of the deal. I planned to return them later in the week when I was less in-the-moment (and hoping for a different sales person), but no, I kept them. They always feel perfect for the first five minutes, but for some reason they blister up my left foot. They seem exactly the same, and I can't figure out for the life of me what's causing the blister at that one spot, but it does. So like an idiot I keep them and don't wear them too often. :-)
And Carshon, all I will say publicly is don't be too concerned about not getting that saddle fit session.
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Post by lorddaxter on Feb 25, 2015 23:36:43 GMT
Good that your trainer took time to do this, saddle fitting sucks, some horses just wont show probs and some act like you are killing them, a friend of mine just had a saddle fit session and to be honest it was a waste of time, shes still none the wiser, glad I didnt bother.
Hope you have and even better next session:)
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Post by horselady on Feb 26, 2015 1:03:41 GMT
Thankfully Reggie is doing fine and coming out of his problem. and with vitamin e comes selenium. with one you need the other and most states are deficient in providing that mineral in the hay. but a person needs to have a vet test to see what might be deficient in the horse before doing a additive like this. overdose is just as bad as deficiency.
your trainer is a smart one. and she sounds like a gem.
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Post by ladymcts on Feb 26, 2015 4:05:59 GMT
Sorry, I didn't answer about the Vit E ... So it's actually the local vet's opinion that Reggie had EPM. I know more about that than I ever want to, and so many differing opinions on the courses of treatment available and tests to tell if that's what his problem was. I'm almost inclined to disagree that he had EPM only because whatever ailed him did so as far back as 2012 when I bought him, and I would guess that he should have been much worse by 2014 than he actually was. My overall description would be "failure to thrive" along with a whole host of the little subtle symptoms that do apply to a bout with EPM, BUT he was born and raised in Michigan where EPM is a little less likely than where I live now. The asymmetrical problems could in fact be the result of an injury as a youngster. His right shoulder is atrophed. The local vet then said he has EPM, the vitamin E will help, and it was on his prescription that I gave the dose that I did. He discouraged any further testing for EPM, and said I could spend the money on drugs for EPM if I wanted but felt it was a waste of money. This is why I took him in January to University of Tennessee at Knoxville. They fully assessed him and said the ataxia was so minimal now as to go ahead and ride him. However one other thing that they did find was "osteochondrosis dessicans" in his back left hock. Basically this is a problem with cartilage in there that will most likely be a problem for him eventually and surgery is the only treatment. The right hock is clear. Does this mean the bad left hock was the source of his atrophed right shoulder? Or does this mean a shoulder injury as a youngster has made him compensate enough so as to trash his back left as well? Who knows ... I've tried multiple times to contact his breeder and even finally broke down to contact the lying bag of trash who sold him to me. No answers from any of them. Breeder is out of business. And as a side note as to how much I've been obsessing over this, it does not seem that his breeder produced many animals of note out of that farm. Most of the males have been gelded, and most of the females don't seem to have produced much that's been registerd with Clydesdale Breeders USA. So am I even dealing with some genetic abnormalities? Who knows! As far as things that are still not quite right about him ... well in Knoxville they shaved spots off his belly so they could ultrasound him. More than a month and those spots still don't have good hair. I don't believe I'm crazy when I say this boy does not shed and produce hair the way he should, nor grow hooves as fast as he should. It took him 20 months to grow out a full cycle of hoof from coronet to ground. And his bloodwork was anemic for three tests in 2012-2014. So altogether he is on Vitamin E for "whatever he had," Red Cell to treat anemia, and double dose of hoof supplement to treat the hoof and hair growth problem. Blech, sorry that I'm rambling! horselady - As far as Vit E and Selenium, his selenium levels have been adequate on all the bloodwork we've ever pulled. So to address the Vitamin E, I am making sure to buy what is Vit E only, tho many of them come packaged in Vit E + Selenium, I know. Turns out the Red Cell already has a fair amount of selenium in it, so I am being careful not to overdo it. If anyone's interested, I'm also using FeedXL to plug in all the amounts he gets of everything daily, and it generates a report to tell me where his levels of various vitamins and minerals are. www.feedxl.com is the website. I bought an annual subscription. In addition, the folks at Knoxville are doing a nutritional workup for me, that I don't have the results yet. |
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Post by horselady on Feb 26, 2015 12:48:01 GMT
HMMM i know you have tested and gone beyond and above, when you said about his hair growth and his hooves. my first thought is cushings. , i have never had one here with full blown cushings until i got a boarder in and began to sweat in february with his long coat. and when my farrier trimmed his feet he said he could see a hoof change in him and could see the cushings and smell it. :|so i called the owner and had the vet come out and his level were thru the roof. over 500 instead of being in the mid 50 range or lower. now he is on pergolide and he is doing wonderful , back to normal hoof growth according to the farrier and his coat is long so we shall see this spring.
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Post by lorddaxter on Feb 26, 2015 12:57:11 GMT
Wow, you have done a lot, lucky horse, does make me wonder if we all did numerous tests on our even seemingly healthy horses what we may find, kinda scary.
Very interesting though, I hope he keeps improving for you:)
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Post by ladymcts on Feb 26, 2015 18:54:15 GMT
Yep, cushings was on the "let's rule it out" list! His resting ACTH came back well within normal range, so based on that and examination in Knoxville, they did not proceed with the more complete testing to confirm\rule out. That would've been a series of blood draws taken at set times and in relation to feedings. He was there for a few days, but it was not one of the tests they felt necessary.
Another one in the list was Equine Polysaccharide Storage Myopathy (EPPM or EPSM). I had always heard that drafts were prone to this disorder, and ever since getting Jacques back in 2005 had kept a keen eye out for Monday Morning syndrome, or general muscle wasting, or episodes of tying up. There are two kinds of tests for this, one that takes hair and confirms genetic predisposition but not actual symptoms. The other is a muscle biopsy. Come to find out that while "drafts" in general are prone to EPPM, clydesdales in particular are much less prone to it, like less than 1%. So given the odds and the fact we've not seen any symptoms, we skipped that one.
Then they did a muscle enzyme test, the value that comes out on bloodwork results as CPK. They did this before exer.cise and at intervals after exer.cise. Those results came back clean.
Oh, and here's another one that kind of happened for free and not even part of the Knoxville trip!! I had posted a whiny vent on Chron of the Horse, and a graduate student studying Stringhalt \ Shivers contacted me. She was working with Dr. Valentine, THE Dr. Valentine who helped identify and put a name to all this muscle problem stuff, the EPPM ... and based on a videos of Reggie, she feels that he doesn't suffer from Shivers.
End result ... we know a whole lot about what's not wrong with this horse. :-) I will just love on him the best way I can, and hope we can make a good partnershp out on trail or maybe even some dressage.
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Post by ladymcts on Feb 26, 2015 19:01:19 GMT
Oh, and completely random note ... another thing I learned on this trip. If your vehicle is dripping dark brown slippery liquid while towing, this may not necessarily be oil.
I kept checking my oil level and it was just fine ... but I knew I was leakin' something. After more than 1500 miles travelled in a week, up and down mountain roadways, just 12 miles from home, I found out that leaky stuff must've been transmission fluid. *angry*
We used US Rider for the tow, and overall I guess it was a good experience. I did learn from it tho that I would never let them try to do a tow with both vehicle and trailer attached together. Seemed like a good idea at the time, until I realized we were making and 80 foot long monstrocity that could not in any way shape or form navigate the one-lane road to the barn. Reggie had to get out and hoof it the last half mile, and I had to borrow the barn's truck in order to move my trailer that last half mile as well.
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hugs
Junior Member
Posts: 2,647 
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Post by hugs on Feb 28, 2015 13:33:48 GMT
I think this thread is the poster child for Horse Adventures in Medicine (and the travel it takes to get there). All I can say is better you than me, sorry about that but you know... Interesting about the sad.dle. Just shows to go you that when we come up with a "saddle fit test" that takes the horse's opinion into account we'll be better off, but individually how are we going to do that?! Hey wait, I have an idea; it's all about the tree isn't it? And trees could be less expensive than a sad.dle. Hmmm.... next time I go home I'm going to bring my sad.dle to our local sad.dle maker/repairman to get rings put on Peach's sad.dle, which fits fine, and ask him about this. I'm going to have to take vacation time to do this because I only have one sad.dle (I know, what is my problem! LOL). Good for Reggie on being such a good, good GOOD boy and double good for you! The best news in a long time  |
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Post by Shelly on Mar 3, 2015 16:25:34 GMT
Glad you're ride went well!! I can't believe the old saddle works for him, that's slightly discouraging that's for sure. Poor boy sounds to have gone through so much! I think Reggie is lucky to have a mum who will go above and beyond to find out what's wrong with him!
and I had to check out Feedxl for myself. Just saying... I LOVE IT!
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