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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 18:49:33 GMT
I am looking for a new bit for Benny as I am not crazy about the bit I am riding him in right now. It is a full cheek snaffle, a little on the thin side. He goes ok in it, it is almost too much bit for him. I'm not sure if that is the right term, but he is extremely light in the mouth and this particular bit seems to have a tendency to 'nutcracker' more than others I own. At the time it was the only bit I owned that was small enough for him.
Normally my go-to young horse bit is a loose ring hollow snaffle. Big, fat, and light. Benny has a low palate, so he has to have a thinner bit.
I was thinking something like a D-ring French link snaffle since I can't seem to find any loose rings I think will be thin enough, but without being too thin. I am hoping for other people's experiences and input.
I looked into the KK bits, but that is a lot of money to drop on a bit that he may not like or may not be ideal.
What do you like to ride your young horses in and why? |
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Post by horselover4life on Nov 29, 2014 1:59:37 GMT
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Post by Shelly on Nov 29, 2014 2:36:03 GMT
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Nov 29, 2014 3:58:49 GMT
I'd go with a Myler type with the piece in the middle that prevents it from doing the nutcracker effect but still has a little play. A French link is pretty much just going to be the same as what you're using. Also, I prefer a D-ring, not a loose O-ring.
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Post by horselover4life on Nov 29, 2014 14:22:29 GMT
That is true nhg...
The problem though seems that as soon as you change from the loose-ring to a d-ring, eggbutt or full-cheek you also change the barrel diameter of the mouthpiece. Most are graduated wider as it gets near the "ring".
If she wanted to go stronger, no issue...wire bits are very narrow, even throughout, but not needed on such a soft mouthed horse yet or ever..
Yes, I know it is the hands holding the reins but such a soft palate on Benny doesn't deserve a bit with bite even in soft hands.
Apollo... if he was being raced he probably carried/wore a d-ring bit.
Unusual it would be for him to run in a o-ring...many trainers just won't do it, they will not run them in that "ring" type of bit.
Gallop, yes...Run, no.
Maybe something along these two would help...my only word of caution is the "d" looks so large I would have hesitation of interference of rings with caveson fitting properly depending upon the build of his face...
www.doversaddlery.com/hunter-dee-ring-snaffle-bit/p/X1-01178/, www.doversaddlery.com/jp-korsteel-oval-mouth-eggbutt-snaffle-bit/p/X1-010063/....
Have you looked at full-bridle bradoons Apollo? They can be worn by themself....
I personally don't like old style plastic looking Myler bits as they if chewed upon get rough edges and disintegrate. A young horse learning I would expect to be doing quite a bit of mouthing, chewing on that bit yet.
For the life of me no matter what style of "older" Myler I have looked at the all appear to my eye to be thick and clunky needing to fit in that small space...
Now today, they have some really nice looking, sleek mouthpieces and different levels of communication engineered in bits....they are pretty pricey though to spend near $100 on one bit and it not work or the horse hates it...ouch.
Many of the "d-ring" bits also look so out of proportion with such large "d's"....wonder if they are to large with a caveson as used English...interference? IDK...
Here is a website that specializes in Thoroughbred racing equipment. My friends with the layup barn and race horses said a good reference site for you or you can purchase from them too...you need not be into "horse-racing" to buy....maybe this will give you some ideas...
www.kbchorsesupplies.com/browse.cfm/bits-accessories/2,77.html
 ......Happy Shopping!
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Nov 29, 2014 17:56:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2014 21:04:21 GMT
Thank you all for the great responses and links!
I have found that english D rings do seem to be much larger than the western ones as well. I think this is mostly a hunter fashion thing.
I had not considered a bradoon, but I will look into them. That is a good idea as well.
Lots to consider. He is so light in his mouth I want to be very cautious about what I put in there. I stay fairly light with my hands, and tend not to be 'busy' but the lighter the bit the better as far as I am concerned.
I like the idea of rubber bits, but I worry about chewing creating sharp ridges. He does chew a fair amount still, but I will keep them in mind as he advances. The next time I am in greenhawk I will check them out.
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Post by horselover4life on Nov 29, 2014 21:46:29 GMT
OK Apollo...maybe my training is in error but I was taught the thicker the diameter the gentler the bit mouthpiece was meant to be.
I understand the "space confines" problem but is there a way you can figure what is the thickest you can place in his mouth instead of going the thinnest route...
I found a nice selection of bits at Schneider's when I was looking for some blanket fixing supplies....paging through their catalog...nice prices too.
Nice mouthpieces and yes some that would be able to go "English" and certainly the standard western bits as well.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 0:03:32 GMT
I have been taught the same. My grandpa used to say 'if somebody intends to hit you with a tree branch you'll catch on a lot sooner than to the one who intends to hit you with a switch' I would love to put my big fat snaffle on him, but I realize this is just not going to happen. This thread has been great and very helpful to see what is out there online. Everything I had been finding in person had been either way to thin to consider, or way to fat for Benny.  It looks like a trip to the Irvine bit wall is in order once the roads improve. |
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hugs
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Post by hugs on Nov 30, 2014 3:00:15 GMT
Not to hijack but since you're talking about bits I'd like to ask a question.
What does "more mullen relief for more lip pressure" mean?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 4:31:14 GMT
That is an excellent question! I don't know the answer myself, hopefully someone else does.
Also apologies if my earlier responses were a bit convoluted. I have a horrible head cold and am having a hard time stringing my thought together.
On a quasi related note - what is sweet iron? I see a ton of western snaffles made out of the stuff, but can't quite understand what the effect is. From the name I take it tastes good?
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Post by horselover4life on Nov 30, 2014 13:28:38 GMT
I think that would refer to the actual straightness or slight curvature of the mouthpiece itself.
A mullen mouth bit is by "definition" a straight bar, period.
I can tell you I have a few different ones and each one by itself looks pretty straight, but put them side-by-side and some of mine have curvature to the mouthpiece.
A mullen mouth bit like mine {http://www.doversaddlery.com/mullenmouth-eggbutt/p/X1-0180/?ids=svzj2lbv5dvh5yzl5jnp0iln} is just what appears to be a straight bar..
Then you can also have all of these which are all variations and styles of different needs of mullen mouth bits.{http://equestrian.doversaddlery.com/search?w=mullen%20mouth%20bit&cart_count=2&cart_total=104.98&dmi_offer_code=CM13DTHANKS&idc=0&ids=svzj2lbv5dvh5yzl5jnp0iln}
Now, my bit {first one shown} is considered a snaffle bit because it applies no leverage to the horse as it has a large ring where headstall and rein both attach to. A snaffle bit does not mean the mouthpiece is broken...it just means "no leverage" applied.
Now, I am a bit collector I guess I would call it.
I have some bits people would scratch their heads saying "what is that" and "what does it do?".....
The mullen bits I have range from pelhams, to snaffle {above} to some exotic things that should be a wall decoration.
I also have several sizes and manufacturers and everyone makes their product just a touch differently I have found.
To add more confusion, kimberwicke or kimblewicke bits depending upon where you are from are another variation of a mullen mouth snaffle and many combinations of features available.
As they have a loop to the top of the bit, the headstall doesn't attach through the same ring as the rein does, but it doesn't have a shank so not a true curb either....it is a cross-over bit. Then add the chain or not as you can see from the assortment below link I gave that a chain is not always needed either, but hooks for a chain are provided if wanted.
I have one that is {http://www.doversaddlery.com/kimberwicke/p/X1-01106/?ids=svzj2lbv5dvh5yzl5jnp0iln} a form of a mullen mouth...
Then again there are more variations...{http://equestrian.doversaddlery.com/search?w=kimberwick%20bits&cart_count=2&cart_total=104.98&dmi_offer_code=CM13DTHANKS&idc=0&ids=svzj2lbv5dvh5yzl5jnp0iln}, just to make you crazy!
Anyone else want to take a stab at this one.... 
And no writing books, chapters and novels...that is my signature deed...  jk....explain away so we all have better understanding.
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Post by horselover4life on Nov 30, 2014 13:38:01 GMT
As for sweet-iron....
I think that would be in the same realm of English bits with copper inlays or rollers or complete mouthpiece.
It should if the horse likes it promote salivation, moisture making the mouth softer, gentler and best is if the horse likes the taste accepting of the bit easier.
I know I think it is the Spreinger{sp?} line of bits has now made a metal compound that is supposed to replicate or better the taste of the bit for again acceptance of the horse and softening of the mouth.
Sweet iron, I have a western grazing bit with this mouthpiece that has a funny color to it from use, and if not used you would swear it is rusting....wipe it off and remove any granules or roughness on it and use it.
I was told by a old-time trainer who saw my bit to never "clean-it" with anything but clear water...
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hugs
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Post by hugs on Nov 30, 2014 14:33:27 GMT
I did see that the one that had "more" mullen relief is the bend in it. So now I gotta figure that the piece that goes in the horses mouth is called a mullen but when you look up labels for the parts of a bit they call the piece that goes in the horses mouth a "mouth piece"  for any kind of bit described. So then I figure, maybe a mullen mouth piece is different somehow... nope, shanked of all kinds, jointed or not, barrel or not BUT in every case the ring or shank is fixed to the mouth piece. If you check out D-ring bits you'll see that the D-ring is really a very short shank that connects the top to the bottom and that shank is fixed to the mouth piece of mullen. So! My take, a mullen is any mouth piece fixed to a shank and that shank is of any length and the rein and headstall attachment are either to different or the same part of the shank. If you check out D ring snaffles, there is a joint between the mouth piece and the shank part of the D ring itself. So whadaya think of that?! |
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Post by horselover4life on Nov 30, 2014 15:57:01 GMT
OK.. mullen mouth is a style. Yes...
Part that goes in the mouth, regardless of what discipline of riding or style bit...."mouthpiece" is what goes in the actual mouth. Yes...
Any mullen mouth bit I have owned, worked with or used has a fixed non-moveable mouthpiece, usually a solid bar, however the "cheek piece", others refer to as o-ring, d-ring, eggbutt,etc...can vary.
If you look at pictures , the mouthpiece is solid and the cheekpiece is what moves, creating leverage or not.
Not only does a leverage point come from a shank below but can also come from how the bit attaches to the headstall above.
So when mention is made of a mullen being a snaffle, it must have headstall and reins attach to the same ring. This usually stops any leverage from occurring.
A kimberwicke bit like the one I have is just a d-ring {no slots on mine} but has a separate loop where the headstall attaches and has hooks and availability for a curb chain...hence it is a modified curb bit.
The you can get to a bit with a separate loop for headstall to attach and shanks in any length below or those slots on a kimberwicke that when a rein is attached and you take up the slack, which in turn takes up the purchase {pivoting action}of the bit in the mouth can make a "curb bit". It can become mild, moderate or severe...now add in the persons hands and you can have a nice gentle or nasty harsh bit.
The hands holding the reins are the key to much of a bit being severe or not, any bit I refer to, not just a mullen mouth.
So if you consider any style of "ring" for attaching of rein and headstall a leverage possibility, then no bit would ever be considered to be a snaffle....
By description a snaffle bit is is a bit with a ring on either side that works off of direct pressure...so a bit that headstall & rein attach to...both on the same ring location...regardless of what the mouthpiece looks like...
Did that make sense??? now I'm confused...
Try this instead....
Here, directly from wikipedia...they explain it simply and understandably...so much better than I.
A snaffle bit is the most common type of bit used while riding horses. It consists of a bit mouthpiece with a ring on either side and acts with direct pressure. A bridle utilizing only a snaffle bit is often called a "snaffle bridle," particularly in the English riding disciplines. A bridle that carries two bits, a curb bit and a snaffle, or "bradoon," is called a double bridle.
A snaffle is not necessarily a bit with a jointed bit mouthpiece, as is often thought. A bit is a snaffle because it creates direct pressure without leverage on the mouth. It is a bit without a shank. Therefore, a single- or double-jointed mouthpiece, though the most common designs for snaffle bits, does not make a bit a snaffle. Even a mullen mouth (a solid, slightly curved bar) or a bar bit is a snaffle.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snaffle_bit
No throwing tomatoes for my giving links either guys.... I am not the googler but trying to explain when others have done it better than I .....
I give credit for where the information came from!!
Now I will bow out of this one.... I'm off to riding the horses and then to Disney for some Christmas shopping needed to be done and shipped for my sisters kids for gifts from Santa under the tree (my sisters kids are as old as mine  !!}
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Nov 30, 2014 16:17:01 GMT
Mullen mouth bits are bits where the mouthpiece is a slight curve or straight across and is for horses with low palates. They are never jointed. Jointed makes them a snaffle. Pictures of mullen mouth bits.
www.bing.com/images/search?q=mullen+mouth+bit&qpvt=mullen+mouth+bit&FORM=IGRE
Some bit makers call them a mullen if they're jointed but the mouthpiece comes out of the side pieces straight instead of at a bit of an angle.
Kimberwicks can have a jointed or solid mouthpiece. A D-ring only gives poll pressure if it's slotted and the reins are attached to the slot near the bottom. Otherwise they work pretty much like an O-ring snaffle with less play.
Kimberwick bit pictures.
www.bing.com/images/search?q=kimberwick+bit&FORM=AWIR
Sweet iron is designed to rust. The horses like them because they like that taste and it helps them salivate. I can't remember exactly what it's made from. Copper is supposed to make their mouths happy, too. Stainless steel like those cheap bits that come with new headstalls sometimes do not make their mouths happy.
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hugs
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Post by hugs on Nov 30, 2014 22:17:35 GMT
Back when I started riding, it was western and a curb bit, mechanical hackamore or a bosal. Snaffles were for starting. The upshot of all of this is that in getting Peaches tack together for her training which starts tomorrow (  ) I looked through all of the bridles and bits I brought with me and found the full cheek had rough parts and I'm going to get rid of it. Plus the loose ring egg butt snaffle is more likely to pinch than I want to deal with, so that's going too. They'll make nice decorations smileys-flowers-548267 So THAT means I get to BUY a bit, this time a Mylar... oh wait, I have more headstalls and bits at home, dang it! Well I am more educated now, thanks for the thread Apollo et al!  |
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Post by horselover4life on Dec 1, 2014 2:40:09 GMT
 .....try borrowing before purchasing.
Quality bits are no longer "cheap".... wag finger
And if serious about Myler...most start around $100....per bit  , so if a "oops"...can be costly. 
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hugs
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Post by hugs on Dec 2, 2014 1:10:55 GMT
Oh! So much for that idea  I'll bring my old bosal & mecate back with me when I go home this weekend and see if it fits Peaches, Last time I tried it I thought it was too small but then I talked to Lois she said it was supposed to fit low on the nozzle so maybe it does fit after all. |
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IDK...
......Happy Shopping!
for any kind of bit described. So then I figure, maybe a mullen mouth piece is different somehow... nope, shanked of all kinds, jointed or not, barrel or not BUT in every case the ring or shank is fixed to the mouth piece. If you check out D-ring bits you'll see that the D-ring is really a very short shank that connects the top to the bottom and that shank is fixed to the mouth piece of mullen.
!!}
)
.....try borrowing before purchasing. 
, so if a "oops"...can be costly. 
I'll bring my old bosal & mecate back with me when I go home this weekend and see if it fits Peaches, Last time I tried it I thought it was too small but then I talked to Lois she said it was supposed to fit low on the nozzle so maybe it does fit after all.