nhg
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Post by nhg on Nov 12, 2014 17:38:37 GMT
I need some opinions, please.
I've noticed over the past while that two of our dogs have become quite disrespectful. Amigo was already not the best behaved dog around and he doesn't hear as well anymore and seems confused sometimes. But he also will stand there and look at me and just completely ignore what I'm telling him. He knows he's not allowed in the kitchen but has decided he'll come in whenever he wants and when I tell him 'out of the kitchen' he'll stand there and look at me until I either say it a few more times in a loud voice or walk towards him to herd him out. He'll also stand in the yard and not come in with the other dogs and look at me and ignore me or slowly wander making sure to have a look at things or sniff things on the way. He'll even get halfway to the door and just stop and have a look around. I find myself yelling at him often. With the chemo I can' deal with the cold and it's even hard for me to touch the handle. And he goes out so often but doesn't actually do anything. He's become unhappy with whatever or wherever he is. On the chair? Not for long. He'll come and stand in front of me and breathe loudly to show how unhappy he is that I'm sitting where he wants to be on the couch. If I get up he'll sit there for two minutes and then want to be somewhere else.
Bella has always been a good girl but the past few months she's become rebellious. She also ignores me and walks slowly when I want her to come in or just doesn't do what I say. She'll come in the kitchen over and over and get told every time but still tries it. And then slowly walks out or has to also be herded out. She's become really bad for barking at nothing and won't shut up. If I can get her to stop she'll give one last quieter woof like an insolent teenager while she's looking at me.
Brodie is still a good boy but he's a dog that yearns to please. And Chloe is just always a good dog.
Do you guys think that Bella and Amigo have figured out that I'm sick and are taking advantage of it? I have to admit that I'm not as quick to jump up and deal with them as I normally am. Do you think they know I'm weak and so are responding by being disrespectful? What's interesting is that they're doing it to my husband and daughter as well and they usually listen to them. It's creating a lot of frustration in the house. I love my dogs but I'm not enjoying them as much these days. Not working and being home with them most of the time isn't helping, of course. I feel like I never get away from them and Amigo's whining and loud breathing and moaning is driving me nuts. I know he wants to go for a walk but I'm not able. And nobody else wants to take him because he pulls so badly and poos five times and rolls in stinky stuff if he's not on a leash.
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mistersmom
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Abita Springs, LA
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Post by mistersmom on Nov 12, 2014 18:12:05 GMT
Was it Amigo you were having problems with before after your surgery? Or was that Brodie? You were even wondering about putting him down.
I think possibly one of them has learned you are not as strict as you were in the past and so they are testing their limits. The other probably learned this from the other (although who learned from who, who knows.). Do you have a water gun so when they are not where they are supposed to be in the house you can reprimand quickly without having to move too fast? As for not coming in when called, I would shut the door, give it a minute or so then try again. If still nothing, I would wait until they think they will die and then let them in. But that's just me. You can't stand there in the cold waiting for a dog to decide to come in.
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Post by horselady on Nov 12, 2014 20:13:34 GMT
I hate it when my dog looks at me and than sits down and points his nose in the air and turns his in the opposite direction.
first off stop yelling, it is not good for you and as a child they are turning you off.
get a baby gate to keep them out of the kitchen. and start using one word command, like the dogs name. and come. i usually do that 4 times and if milo has not returned i close the door and resume doing what i was doing.
i think they are picking up on each other which is double the madness.
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Nov 12, 2014 21:30:38 GMT
I've been thinking about this some more and thinking that I might be yapping at them all the time and they're tuning me out like you said MM. It's been Amigo that's been difficult all along. He's not a bad dog but he's always been the dog that will do what he isn't supposed to or not do what he is supposed to forever. And he's the old guy that's gotten even worse with age. What he likes to do is hang around outside and ignore me but the second he wants in he's at the door barking his head off.
I wish I could keep them out of the kitchen HL but our house is open concept and the kitchen is totally open by about eight feet or more.
I already use a water bottle for when they bark. It's really effective for Brodie and Chloe, I just have to grab it and they stop, but Bella not so much and with Amigo I could walk up and soak his face and he'd keep barking.
Another thing that's driving me crazy is that Bella has really stepped up eating the other dog's poo. I watched her and Brodie the other day. He'd get in position to go and she'd stand behind him waiting for it. He'd see her and move to another spot. This went on for several minutes and then I finally called her in, which she did in her stop motion, slow walk. It gave Brodie a chance to go without being bothered at least. Usually she goes out in a muzzle because of this issue and this morning she was trying to force a fresh one into it so came in with a bunch of fresh, stinky crap smeared over the sides of it. I had to rinse it off which is wonderful when it's first thing in the morning and I haven't had my pill for the nausea yet. She's really bad for sitting beside me and burping up poo smell, too. OMG I'm just so not enjoying the two of them these days. |
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mistersmom
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Abita Springs, LA
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Post by mistersmom on Nov 12, 2014 23:59:34 GMT
Is it possible for you daughter to take care of Amigo and/or Bella? Just until you are feeling better?
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hugs
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Post by hugs on Nov 13, 2014 0:37:39 GMT
I agree that they are "taking advantage of you", after all, they're like perennial toddlers but please don't feel bad about it. Would it make it easier on you to use a broom to get them to move? I'm not saying hit them with it but use it like an extension of your arm and hand like we do for horses? When you let them out are they in a fenced in yard or could you put them on a long lead for just this time when you need to be able to let them out without babysitting them? Whatever it is you can do that is comfortable for you and gives them defined parameters to your liking. They can and will adjust, its okay, they're your dogs not the other way around.
In the meantime love yourself up and treat yourself like you'd treat your best friend, okay? You deserve it and we can't be there to do it for you. (((hugs)))
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Nov 13, 2014 0:40:55 GMT
My daughter hates Amigo and has zero tolerance for his antics. He doesn't like her, either. And her own dog eats poo so it's already an inconvenience just having her own dog. I fed them dinner tonight and they all wanted out and Bella didn't even have to 'go' she just went straight to eating poo. I was at the door screaming at her so she stopped and just stood there looking around instead of coming in. I never discipline her when she does come in because I don't want to make it worse, not with Amigo either, but it's SO frustrating. And I have to let Bella out a lot because she has an issue where she can't hold her pee very long and I don't want her to have an accident. We've tried everything in the past to curb this habit from stuff from the vet to feeding them bananas. My daughter's dog learned it from her previous dog that did it. Bella had the habit before we got her. We might have to try a remote shock collar although I don't like them and they're not cheap. Or maybe I could spray something in her mouth after she's done it like Bitter Apple so it isn't so yummy. She's always worse in the winter and will try to sneak in poopsicles in her mouth to chew on the carpet. Ugh, I'm just disgusted. |
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Nov 13, 2014 0:52:11 GMT
Sorry  , I must have sent my post at the same time as you. Our situation is that we have a big deck and then 8 steps down to an enclosed dog yard that's about 20 by 20. In the summer I did go out there and deal with them but it's now really cold and snowy and I'd have to get a coat on and boots because the steps get precarious. My husband never did put a railing up and the way they are in relation to the deck they get very icy. I've probably come up with every idea already but can't do it for various reasons.
They ate and went outside and immediately Amigo started his annoyed loud breathing while looking at me like 'why don't you do what I want?' He'll follow me from room to room to make sure I can hear him. Oh! What's that I hear? He's doing it again out in the hallway! What does he want? Who knows! Sometimes he just wants his ears cleaned or to be brushed. He's the worst dog in the house for not pointing out what he wants. The others will show me but if I ask him what he wants he turns his head away like a snotty girlfriend saying 'well, if you don't know....'. Sometimes I think he's getting so dotty he doesn't even know what he wants. He's starting to have trouble on the stairs off the deck. If he can't get up them I won't be able to go get him and we'll have to put him down. There's no way I'd have the strength to haul his seventy pound butt up all those stairs while I'm sick. And since he waits until the last minute and is usually holding up his feet and crying from the cold and I'd have to get a coat and boots it just won't happen. |
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hugs
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Post by hugs on Nov 13, 2014 1:01:42 GMT
Oh I hate stairs, especially deck stairs in winter. No, that won't work at all, especially without a railing, no way, no how!
I dunno but I know as soon as you realize you're the boss of the house and they have to tow the line, it'll work out one way or another. You're trying to make it easier on them rather than on you, I don't think so!
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Nov 13, 2014 5:14:10 GMT
They always knew I was the weaker one in the household but haven't challenged me like they have been. I'm not enjoying being around them so much. It's like being at home alone with four four-year-olds. My hubby works until 11pm every night, six days a week so he's no help after he leaves at about noon. And he has no patience for their antics, either.
They're not really bad dogs. They're not biting people or wrecking our house or doping anything horrible, they're just driving me nutty. And I don't need any help in that department! Actually, the eating poo thing is pretty traumatic. |
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hugs
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Post by hugs on Nov 14, 2014 1:27:41 GMT
Gosh, if you only lived closer... first of all you'd be warmer and that's a good thing but second of all Auntie Hugs would be helping you with those "toddlers" of yours!
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Nov 14, 2014 4:54:48 GMT
I'd LOVE it if you lived closer!!
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hugs
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Post by hugs on Nov 15, 2014 2:59:26 GMT
You say that now...  |
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Valhallanite
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Post by Valhallanite on Nov 15, 2014 13:31:30 GMT
That's an awful lot of irritating things to handle, especially when you aren't well! It appears you've tried everything. Maybe they are used to more activity from the way things used to be and now are bored and cutting up? I know my dog will do that. Even if that is so, it doesn't help you. With the kitchen doorway, maybe you could have your hubby move something there? Some type of furniture that would block most of the way, and put a baby gate along the rest. Who cares what it looks like if it helps. I do that with my dog sometimes, the gate doesn't need to be attached, just leaning partially on the wall, and mine is scared to go near it after it fell and made noise a few times. I've also put an empty laundry basket at the bottom of the stairs to keep him from going up. Is there another door that you could let Bella out to go on a line? That way she wouldn't be in the same spot to find other's poop? Here I sit trying to give you advice, looking at my dog with a cone around his head to stop licking a hot spot, and a habit of trying to get food off the counter that I find difficult to break.  |
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hugs
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Post by hugs on Nov 15, 2014 14:46:53 GMT
Gerald puts up the things about me that he can't "fix" and vice versa just as it is with all of our animals. But the difference with animals as Val put so well is that we can put up actual physical boundaries to contain some of their behaviors. But as far as the huffing, is that a cue you can ignore if you know he is physically contained? Is this kind of thing possible to do? I hope you get this solved soon, you sure don't need more stress.
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Nov 15, 2014 15:39:47 GMT
There's really nothing we can do to stop them doing things like going in the kitchen. We did put a board across the bedroom door so I can have a nap without having to close the door. Brodie can jump over it but that's fine. Amigo's loud breathing is so loud it's really hard to ignore. It's fake loud and he also moans, makes a yodelling noise, all kinds of noises. He does it to be a jerk. If I'm talking to anybody he'll come in the room and stand there doing it until they leave. You know what, I'll see if I can video it because I really can't describe it. I can hear him walking around the house and know where he is when he's doing it. He doesn't do it all the time or I'd think he had something wrong with him but it's obviously an annoyed noise.
Last night someone came to the door. My daughter went to see who it was while I dealt with the dogs. All four were barking at the top of the stairs and when I went to grab one to put in the office the rest ran down the stairs. Amigo and Brodie were two of the ones that ran to the front door and suddenly Amigo turned on Brodie and was going to snap at him so she had to break it up. We're starting to see this behaviour from him more and more. He was always a dog that would bite the other dogs sometimes but he never hurt any of them until a couple of years ago when he and the other old dog that's gone now fought over a bone and she ended up getting stitches. He bit our bichon/shi-tsu a number of times but never actually hurt him. He'd just grab him and hold him. He was my daughter's dog and that's why she hates him.
I'll see about videoing him. You guys will probably laugh. |
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hugs
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Post by hugs on Nov 16, 2014 0:52:22 GMT
I'll laugh to hear a dog yodel but not a dog biting. That's really too bad, I'm sorry to hear that. Some behaviors are so very difficult to train out. There is a method called conditional operant training or some such. John Lyon's bases his training methods on it and its been around for a long time. Think Pavlov's dog. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_%28psychology%29I know you're creative enough to figure out a way to use the concept. I think clicker training uses it as its basis too. |
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Nov 16, 2014 15:57:49 GMT
Amigo is too old to retrain and these are new behaviours. If I get mad he looks surprised and then does it again a few minutes later. It's like his goal in life now is to annoy me. I've been using the guest bedroom since I got sick as the master bedroom is on another floor. A few days ago Jim got me a board to put across the doorway so I can nap without having four dogs on the bed but I don't have to shut the door. Brodie is the only one that can jump over it which is fine because he's easy to sleep with. I can see the stairs to the master bedroom from the guest room bed. Yesterday Amigo figured out he could go a couple of steps up and see me in there. So now he lies on the third step up staring at me and breathing loudly.
He's the last dog I want sleeping with me. He's over 70 pounds and likes to lie on my feet. When I move my feet he changes position so he's on them again. He also sheds more than the other three combined. My poor old guy, he can't seem to do anything that isn't annoying. There's so much more I haven't mentioned like when he's on the Lazy-boy he has to put his paws on the side table so it's all scratched up. If I'm on the couch he must lie stretched out beside me on the floor so it's hard to get up when I'm weak and he won't move. He likes to lie on the back of the loveseat which is next to the railing so he's scratched the railing up, he likes to walk past any coats hanging on the dining room chairs and rub on them so they all have white hair all over them, he only wants toys or bones the other dogs have, never one that's just sitting there, he takes them away and then gets bored and lies on them so nobody else can have them. I could go on. He just has all these habits that drive us all nuts and the other dogs don't so it so it just makes it more obvious what a wanker he's being.
Anyway, he was good yesterday and once lunchtime comes around I'm pretty much done for the day so I didn't get anything videoed. |
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Nov 18, 2014 16:08:51 GMT
I can't get videos. Either I'm too sick to do it when he's doing it or he stops like he knows what I'm up to.
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hugs
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Post by hugs on Nov 19, 2014 3:40:51 GMT
Oh, I'm sorry NHG (((hugs)))
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, I must have sent my post at the same time as you. Our situation is that we have a big deck and then 8 steps down to an enclosed dog yard that's about 20 by 20. In the summer I did go out there and deal with them but it's now really cold and snowy and I'd have to get a coat on and boots because the steps get precarious. My husband never did put a railing up and the way they are in relation to the deck they get very icy. I've probably come up with every idea already but can't do it for various reasons.
