Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
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Post by Lipizzan on Aug 28, 2014 14:16:29 GMT
What is the main difference between a champagne and a cremello? Is it what colour the parents were and if they're a dilute colour? Champagnes don't have blue eyes, right? I remember a champagne TWH where we used to board that had gorgeous amber eyes. My daughter's friend has a cremello TWH. She looks white and has blue eyes. Both parents are palominos. My understanding is that she's basically a dilute palomino. When she's clean she's actually a very light cream colour and has a blaze and socks that are whiter. They're in the process of getting her registered and the owner wants to bath her and mark down her markings which I think is a mistake. If she ever needed that information because she was stolen or sold her it wouldn't make sense to someone else. I guess you are right, every cremello that I have seen had blue eyes and pink skin. post img
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nhg
Junior Member
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Post by nhg on Aug 28, 2014 17:31:22 GMT
I looked up skewbald and piebald. Skewbald is white with any colour except black and piebald is white with black. Interesting.
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nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
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Post by nhg on Aug 28, 2014 17:35:09 GMT
That's a pretty cremello Lippy. My daughter has been trying to figure out what colour she'd want to breed to get another palomino if she ever bred her mare. The last thing she'd want is to breed her to another pally and end up with a cremello. I wonder if it's possible to figure out if a horse has a dilute gene and if two pallys don't would that eliminate the chance of getting a cremello. I suspect she's want to breed her to a sorrel but according to the color calculater that's on-line it would still not be great of odds of getting one.
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Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
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Post by Lipizzan on Aug 28, 2014 17:56:40 GMT
You can calculate the color by doing genetic crossbreeding of alleles. It is really hard for me to explain in english, but I am sure there is a lot of that stuff on the internet so google it if you want. I have done that with dog's and birds in my classes.
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Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
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Post by Lipizzan on Aug 28, 2014 18:11:28 GMT
Let me try to explain like this. Some breeds such as Haflinger for example have defined color as the breed characteristic, right?. For skin color and hair is responsible melanin located in the pigment cells. In horses it occur in two basic forms: eumelanin (responsible for black color and brown color) and phaeomelanin (responsible for the red and yellow color.)
Four basic colors are represented in the horse (bay horse, dun, black and grey)and are controlled by three gene loci (W, A, G, E) and, depending on their combinations were expressed primary colors. For tinting primary colors are responsible four gene loci (C, CH, D, Z).Appirance of white fields various sizes, intensity and symmetry is also coded with four gene loci. (TO, A, LP, RN). Combining these gene loci we can get the probability and the percentage of color.
Ok, I think I complicated this even more now. lol
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Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
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Post by Lipizzan on Aug 28, 2014 18:27:15 GMT
So example, if you cross palomino and grey horse you would cross this gen-loci:
*small letters : homozygous recessive *E: stimulate the synthesis of eumelanin in the skin and coat(and remember I said eumelanin is--> black and brown *e: stimulates the syhntesis of pheomelanin in the skin and coat(yellow and red)
palomino: basic color -->ww(white), gg(grey), Ee, shades --> C*C(cremelo), chch(Champagne), dd(dark bay), zz(silver shade) grey: basic color-->ww, GG shades: none
with simple mathematical procedure you can calculate the color of the offspring
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nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
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Post by nhg on Aug 28, 2014 19:54:02 GMT
That's really interesting! Thank you so much! So what would you cross a pally with to get the best odds for getting another one or at least a dun/buckskin. A champagne would be awesome, too.
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Lipizzan
Junior Member
Europe, Croatia
Posts: 2,572
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Post by Lipizzan on Aug 28, 2014 19:56:35 GMT
I am in bed right now, so I will try to do a math for you tomorow. :-)
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nhg
Junior Member
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Post by nhg on Aug 29, 2014 14:13:47 GMT
Okay, thank you! Not a rush. I don't know if or when she'd ever do it. I still think it's weird that my horse's sire and dam produced pallys five times. I don't know what colour he was but the dam was a bay. They should have been buckskins or duns if the sire diluted the dam's colour. The sire goes back to Stormy Frost, a quarter horse, and there are some buckskins in his background. On the other hand, my daughter's pally has hardly any pallys in her lineage. I can't remember exactly but I think it's her sire that's a roan.
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