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Post by Shelly on Aug 21, 2014 16:11:16 GMT
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Post by horselover4life on Aug 21, 2014 17:54:47 GMT
OK... so you say he is still growing. Then I don't like this feed.
You need to address issues of a growing body not a lactating mare. I think it is a afterthought they tossed a foal on that bag. A foal would still be nursing and getting nutrients from momma...
I know nothing about this feed. I have never seen it, heard of it nor had any experience with it.
I can tell you when I read manufacturers bag backs and see so little in information it bothers me, A LOT.
Here is a feed I feed my underweight neglect horse I recently brought home.
seminolefeed.com/shop/equine-feeds/seminole-wellness-senior-mix/
seminolefeed.com/shop/equine-feeds/seminole-wellness-senior-mix/
Can you see the difference in what is included, the depth of ingredients included in a bag?
When you feed quality feed that fits the job and animal correctly you should not need to add this or that. Forage, hay of quality growth. Feed/grain in appropriate amounts that have the correct amounts of daily vitamins and nutrients added in it. This particular feed cost me $23.98 a bag. In 6 weeks time my horse put on 150 pounds with this feed, Tifton 44 hay {which is a Bermuda grass grown in hot climates, sandy soil} and he grazed in my pasture...access to salt block of course.
I added nothing else because it all was in that bag...
If you have a growing horse you need a feed to fit those needs IMO. I read your bag back...you read mine.
There is a vast difference in what goes into that feed. I do have to wonder if the elimination of some of those ingredients has possibly pushed your horse into a tizzy when his bodies needs are not being met on a daily basis with proper vitamins and minerals to support a growing body, bones and internal organs.
I am not the greatest on feeding the young...adults much better.
But something is wrong someplace.
Use my link from my manufacturer and look at their line of feeds that they have for young growing horses and see how their feed reads compared to yours.
Do the same with other brands you will be able to get near you... Purina and Triple Crown should be available in Canada. I don't know what else is up there...
I just don't feel good about this feed. The #'s are much better but there is still to much lacking in nutrient quality I believe.
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Post by horselover4life on Aug 21, 2014 17:55:23 GMT
I'll be back...back to work!!
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749 
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Post by mistersmom on Aug 21, 2014 17:57:57 GMT
Just wondering why you are trying to find such a high protien/high fat food for your horse. Does he get worked a lot? Is he is training? Did you say how old he was?
I do not think I would feed a broodmare food to my gelding. jmo.
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Post by Shelly on Aug 21, 2014 20:02:03 GMT
He's 3 years old So I'll scratch the brood mare feed, but I am definitely considering ultimate finish by buckeye. Out here we have purine, master feeds, buckeye and Martin mills. www.buckeyenutrition.com/supplements/ultimate-finish-25.aspxI'm open to any recommendations, I want something with extra fats to help him put on more weight (he's a bit thin right now). Right now with everything going on he's been working once to twice a week but I would like him to be doing more as time goes on. My goal is to be riding him in lessons over the winter which is quite the work out. Before increasing his work level tho I want this whole diarrhea issue resolved. |
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Post by Shelly on Aug 21, 2014 20:11:07 GMT
The only reason I was considering feeding the broodmare is because I was working at an equine rescue and that's what they were feeding all of their horses and it helped them put on weight and build up their toptline. I was really impressed with the feed in general seeing the horses before and after.
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Post by horselover4life on Aug 21, 2014 21:36:51 GMT
OK..back from work, day is done!
So...perfection a brand I recognize and you have access to.
Purina!!
I would go to Strategy Healthy Edge hands down.
A pelleted feed without molasses filled with so much "good stuff".
This is a calorie dense feed which equates to not needing to feed as much to get the same results.
It is a moderate in protein, higher than anything I have seen you give a link to for higher fat content and higher fiber content. All those things combined with daily vitamins and minerals and geared for feeding to any horse 2 years of age or older.
There is also a fat nugget in this particular food called Amplify. Added in but also available as a separate supplement if you wish. Strategy feed is also available in the GX form without the amplify nugget to feed once your horse gains and is maintaining his weight at a level you like.
I have friends, many friends who feed this feed with great success. Competition and pleasure horses...rodeo, H/J, trail horses and all look great and have a wonderful attitude and not hot to work with. No problems of them liking to eat this food either.
As for what you gave from Buckeye...that IS NOT FEED but a supplement to top-dress the daily feed ration.
It will not give the required vitamins and minerals nor the other critical things feed do...it is just a fat supplement. You also need to balance Omega 3 with Omega 6 and I think it is Omega 9 thrown in...all work together yet do very different jobs. www.understanding-horse-nutrition.com/omega-3-fatty-acids.html
I like this better...look at the list of minerals and vitamins included in appropriate amounts.
www.buckeyenutrition.com/pleasureleisure/safe-%27n-easy-pelleted/Detail.aspx
If you have Nutrena products available by you they have a product called Empower Boost... it is a fat supplement added to the daily feed ration.
It has incredible ingredients in it...
I have used this with fantastic success on a OTTB older horse who was in terrible condition. He had serious dental issues of missing teeth too...I started the horse on this in desperation of trying to find something to help him. Within a weeks time he had a noticeable improvement!! He now is nearly perfect in weight, his work attitude is fantastic, he looks great in his coat and his hooves...  are improving, growing really well and no longer busting up!! Win-win situation for the horse.
OK...so have we bombarded you to death yet???
So much to take in, read and start to understand and apply.
Took me years and I am still learning....still trying to get it straight...still making phone calls to my vet, a horse nutritionist and asking a ton of questions when I don't understand "how come?"......
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Post by horselady on Aug 21, 2014 23:48:41 GMT
Wheat shorts and alfalfa meal does not sound like a great product to put into a horse food. and all the oil. even at 14 percent that can cause the manure to be loose also.
do you have just plain old oats. and cracked corn. , i would mix that with alfalfa cubes or a alfalfa pellete soaked than drained. and continue with the red cell.
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Aug 22, 2014 12:19:24 GMT
Your horse has lost weight because he has had diarrhea for 6+ months. Once that issue is resolved, then you can think about trying to add weight with a particular food. I would be hesitant to change his diet right now with his digestive system in such disrepair, I think that is just asking for trouble. After you and your vet cure the diarrhea, then talk with your vet about the best food for your horse. Of course that is jmo.
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nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
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Post by nhg on Aug 22, 2014 14:22:21 GMT
Again, I suggest the Metamucil to stop the diarrhea. I don't know why everyone ignores me when I suggest this, I've offered the advice plenty of times on the 'other' forum and it always gets ignored there, too. It worked like magic for our filly and it was suggested by a vet.
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Aug 22, 2014 14:30:07 GMT
Hmmm, I mentioned testing for sand but forgot to mention the metamucil too! Thanks for the reminder NHG.
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Post by Shelly on Sept 2, 2014 3:26:07 GMT
So I figured I would post a little update, The vet came out on thursday to do Sheldon's teeth, they were pretty bad (I got to stick my hands in there and feel). His teeth has some pretty severe waves going on which really surprised me considering he's only 3 years old. The vet did take some blood samples and I am waiting for results, hopefully should find out on thursday and go from there. My poor boy, this needs to get resolved... If the vet doesn't have any other plans after this I might pay to get a second opinion but we will see. Would like to see if my vet can resolve this first just feels like it's been going on for so long  definitely getting frustrated. also tested for sand, it was inconclusive  |
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Post by horselover4life on Sept 2, 2014 9:52:39 GMT
also tested for sand, it was inconclusive
Shelly...did you do this or the vet?
Do you know what a sand test is that we as owners can do?
Many do not...
{few pieces of fresh manure not touched the ground place in a large Ziploc bag, fill little more than 1/2 full with water, seal bag, set aside for hour or two, go back and look at what has separated, sand to the bottom all else should float to the top, if there is sand test is positive for sand in the gut}...the question only needing answered is how much do you see in comparison to how much manure you placed in that bag...judgement call.
Me, if I saw any...I would be treating for it as it is cheap enough to do.
Sand coating their intestinal tract or accumulating can deter them from getting all the nutrients from their feed and create issues as you are having beside abrasions inside the intestines... more issues and ones most of us would not want to have happen to our horses.....
Glad some answers will soon be coming with the bloodwork....at least then you may also be able to rule out things as you search for answers.
My thoughts are with you....
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Post by Shelly on Sept 6, 2014 3:30:04 GMT
Shelly...did you do this or the vet?
I looked online and did it myself, I didn't find any sand in his stool. Also, great news! His stool is now back to normal.. I suppose it was his teeth causing this issue after all. |
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Post by diamondgirl on Sept 6, 2014 3:57:00 GMT
I got to get my horse into an equine dentist once. I was surprised that My 3 year olds teeth were so much worse than my 9 year olds teeth. She said it was because the 3 year olds teeth were growing faster, so would get bad faster than an older horse. Diamond is 6 now and she still needs to be floated yearly, while Stormy is every two years. I think it also has to do with the horse, and the way they chew, or their bite confirmation. I don't want to worry about that. The Vet checks their teeth when he visits twice a year and tells me if they need to be done or if they can wait.
I am glad to hear that the diarrhea is clearing up.  |
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Post by Shelly on Sept 6, 2014 4:08:24 GMT
Ya Sheldon will probably have to be done annually. I have to pre book him to get done around christmas to get his teeth back under control a bit. There is a big improvement but the vet stated that he could only take off so much without causing him any serious pain.
... kinda a tick off tho, because I get him vaccinated and checked out by my vet at least once a year, but this year is the first year his teeth were checked? I feel like they shouldn't have let it go so long.. I suppose i could have mentioned something but I don't like telling vets how to do an exam if that makes sense. Note to self... not doing that again! I'm just annoyed it wasn't spotted sooner.
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Post by horselover4life on Sept 6, 2014 12:40:13 GMT
Shelly...can't blame the vet.
Today think about how much you read on horse forums about "Equine Dentists"....
So many no longer think their vet is good enough to do the horses teeth, nor know what they are talking about regarding teeth and bits/chewing issues so they have a "specialist" come in many times for exorbitant rates.
That being that, in turn many vets no longer do teeth, period. Saves them time and a lot of wear and tear on their bodies. Not every vet does "power floating" either....
I've had horses for to many years and worked in the industry for as many if not more..."power floating" didn't exist and horses had fine dental work done by hand method.
Today that "power float"... I've seen some horrible screw-ups of to much taken off or injuries to the oral cavity because of a slip...no thanks.
Personally, I think it is the easier way out and not take as much pure strength and ability as doing a hand float.
Any horse I've ever seen "power floated" also needed to be sedated, some heavily. Be aware those "specialists"...not all are licensed to use sedation drugs yet they do. Many states only a licensed vet is allowed to sedate and use those lines of drugs...
My vet does my horses teeth where I now live. The cost for my float...$45.00, that's it!
I want to see the "specialist" with the "power float" do them for that fee....  highly unlikely!!
Seems the "specialist" has prices that start in the hundred plus area and go rapidly from there upwards...
Yes, your youngster needs his teeth done more often as his mouth is still changing shape which will affect his grind motion...at least once a year will be needed.
Your older guy you may only need once a year till they reach their mid to late teens I think is the guideline, then again they just need a look-see and attention as needed...some do need that one time some two times a year, true.
So glad you found what seems to be the issue and it was completely and easily fixed....
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Terry
Junior Member
Central Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,466
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Post by Terry on Sept 6, 2014 15:16:52 GMT
I'm so glad to hear that Sheldon's diarrhea issue has been resolved. YAY!!! Now he should be able to start putting some weight back on again.
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mingiz
Junior Member
Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 3,320
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Post by mingiz on Sept 7, 2014 2:27:01 GMT
Great news to hear. Glad he is doing better!!  |
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Post by Shelly on Sept 7, 2014 4:32:32 GMT
Shelly...can't blame the vet. Sadly around here it works a bit differently. My vet hosted an equine dentistry clinic not to long ago and he stated that it's illegal for an equine dentist to come out and sedate your horses and do their teeth. I don't believe there are any programs in Canada for equine dentistry that you can take without already being a vet (well that's what my vet makes it sound like anyways). There is an equine dentist that comes in from the states and does a bunch of horses out here once a year and doesn't charge much but my vet discourages it completely. Right now I pay $165 for him to get floated (includes sedation and a hand float). As much as I don't want to "blame" my vet he makes it pretty clear that he is the only one who should be in my horse's mouth. The only other thing is that I should have done is checked him myself. I think in the future I might just do that or I should have asked him to check him every time he's out. Sheldon being so young I really never thought of it sadly. Thank you everyone for all your support, it's really appreciated and I'm happy my horse is feeling better again |
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are improving, growing really well and no longer busting up!! Win-win situation for the horse.
definitely getting frustrated. 
highly unlikely!!
