leli
New Member
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Post by leli on Jun 21, 2016 2:11:17 GMT
One of my BO's horses had to be picked up early from a trainer's because she was lame. They left her all weekend outside in a paddock and didn't tell my BO something was wrong until after the weekend. She gets her home amd one vet finds an abcess that was causing her lower leg to swell quite badly. Popped it at the heel bulb but she didn't show drastic improvement like you normally see once the pressure is released (overall she seemed to feel better, but continued to be lame). Another vet came out and found a fracture in her foot. It was very slight and he needed to pack her hoof with playdoh to provide better contrast on the xray. I think she had bar shoes on (?) for a while until it healed.
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Post by horselover4life on Jun 21, 2016 11:15:15 GMT
A hoof fracture is not the worst.... Many a Thoroughbred is retired for a sesamoid fracture, with rest...proper rest it heals. No lameness from it or hoof distortion. It needs a correct and proper diagnosis which you are searching for "the cause" already... So the horse can't race for a living but makes a fine riding horse as Benny is... Let you see what those x-rays will show...if anything!
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hugs
Junior Member
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Post by hugs on Jun 21, 2016 22:43:41 GMT
One of my BO's horses had to be picked up early from a trainer's because she was lame. They left her all weekend outside in a paddock and didn't tell my BO something was wrong until after the weekend. She gets her home amd one vet finds an abcess that was causing her lower leg to swell quite badly. Popped it at the heel bulb but she didn't show drastic improvement like you normally see once the pressure is released (overall she seemed to feel better, but continued to be lame). Another vet came out and found a fracture in her foot. It was very slight and he needed to pack her hoof with playdoh to provide better contrast on the xray. I think she had bar shoes on (?) for a while until it healed. I am nearly breathless with disappointment at best but I really want to say disgust but that's pretty "holier than thou"and I know for a fact I'm not. So easy to let "someone other than me" suffer, especially if it's an animal. The older I get the more sensitive I am to such things. Some people suck raw eggs :-(
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hugs
Junior Member
Posts: 2,647
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Post by hugs on Jun 21, 2016 22:45:01 GMT
A hoof fracture is not the worst.... Many a Thoroughbred is retired for a sesamoid fracture, with rest...proper rest it heals. No lameness from it or hoof distortion. It needs a correct and proper diagnosis which you are searching for "the cause" already... So the horse can't race for a living but makes a fine riding horse as Benny is... Let you see what those x-rays will show...if anything!
Yah, I've heard of it but that was a long time ago before I really thought about such things and didn't know how complicated a horse's foot is. And if you know how to construct that sentence without ending in a preposition (which I believe "is" is lol) then please let me know.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 0:04:34 GMT
Benny has navicular. Very early onset. We started treatment today and he'll get wedge shoes as soon as we can get the farrier back out.
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hugs
Junior Member
Posts: 2,647
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Post by hugs on Jun 23, 2016 0:27:27 GMT
Aw, I'm sorry but if I hadn't done lots and lots of research I would feel worse about it. What I mean is that today there is SO much that can be done to arrest it and keep the foot and of course the rest of the horse healthy and happy that it isn't the awful thing it used to be. I passed on a Morgan mare because she had navicular and I've regretted it ever since.
So while it isn't a good thing it can be treated and Benny can be happy. Best of luck and all good things to the both of you!!
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nhg
Junior Member
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Post by nhg on Jun 23, 2016 1:12:16 GMT
Oh no. I'm SO sorry. Hopefully they can arrest it and keep him comfortable. Keeping him in my prayers. Sending you a hug!
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Jun 23, 2016 1:49:01 GMT
Oh I am so sorry to hear that Apollo! He seems too young to get navicular. Can I express my ignorance and ask if the vet has any idea what may have caused him to get it at such a young age? I guess I don't know much about it. Hopefully they caught it early enough that they can take care of it and get him back on the road to training.
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Post by horselover4life on Jun 23, 2016 2:43:42 GMT
I would suggest you do some very in-depth reading about treating of navicular. There are many excellent reference materials now available and the way of treating today is not the same as yesterday....improvements have taken place. On HT is member Smilie...she has done her homework and can help give you good reading resources and actual things to have your farrier check into before just clamping a particular shoe to hoof bottom. There is a method with very good outcome for the horse... I would strongly suggest you make contact with her. I am not sure if you are anywhere near each other but know you are both "north" and in Canada...maybe sharing a farrier by chance.
It still is better than some things this could of been but not as good as you hoped for. With good care, as he will get, much time I hope awaits you with this riding partner. ....
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nhg
Junior Member
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Post by nhg on Jun 23, 2016 4:10:08 GMT
Smilie lives about an hour from us. I think she's up north of Cochrane somewhere or near Sundre, something like that. I think I remember her posting about riding near wild horses and it was near her place.
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Post by carshon on Jun 23, 2016 18:43:34 GMT
We have a mare with Navicular and she is riding sound. Not jumping sound and not arena work sound but trail riding sound. She get Previcoxx daily and is trimmed on a 4 week trim schedule. Wedges and pads only gave her relief for a year or two and then she was still slightly lame. What worked for us was bring her breakover back as far as we could and keeping her heels low.
Osphos and some other drugs are now treating Navicluar with great success. Our x-rays have not changed in 5 years but her lameness has. She is 18 now and is still pretty sound for the riding we do.
I second educating yourself. What worked for us was educating ourselves and consulting a different vet. We love our vet but he is a large animal vet and horses are a very small part of his practice. We hauled 2 1/2 hours to a "horse vet' and got more x-rays and some valuable advice.
Navicular is not a death sentence. Treat it and see what happens.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 21:42:05 GMT
I'm trying really, really hard to stay positive and I have been doing a ton of research and reading on the subject today and have been emailing back and forth with the vet. I am very lucky that he is great about answering my questions and explaining things in different ways. When we were at the office yesterday he spent a ton of time explaining all of my different treatment options.
I'd be lying if I said I'm taking the news well though. I bawled about it for hours last night and have been having a hard time holding it together today. I've already been flooded with offers of other horses to ride and show this year, and it really is touching, but too soon for me I think. I've put so much blood sweat and tears into developing Benny and he has been the best horse I have ever owned. My hopes for our partnership were really high and I guess in some way I am mourning the loss of 'what might have been', if that makes any sense at all.
My vet said he had never diagnosed a horse as young a Benny with navicular. He thought that perhaps there was a genetic aspect to it, and might have been bloodflow related, but without an MRI he told me that he could not say for sure one way or the other what had caused it. I just don't have the extra $2500 -$3000 sitting around right now for and MRI and we already have a diagnosis. An MRI might not even reveal a cause. His practice is exclusive equine based and I would say that he is certainly one of the better if not the best equine lameness vets in the immediate area. As much as I want to be in denial a bit here, I am comfortable and confident in his diagnosis.
I sent Smilie a message on HT, it doesn't look like she has been on in a while and I am not sure that she will get it, but I figure it is worth a shot.
The good news in all of this is that it is very early onset. We did catch it right away. So hopefully he will respond well to treatment.
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Post by horselover4life on Jun 23, 2016 22:29:26 GMT
If you don't belong to horseforum.com, join and become a member.Many, many very educated hoof specialists on this site. Some of the leaders in the industry share their knowledge of keeping a navicular horse as a sound riding partner without crazy shoes and things. Smilie is their also posting and you could reach out to her their if she not respond on HT. {her name is Judy by the way} I truly believe you have many years ahead of you working in partnership with Benny. Don't despair so soon. Just don't... not yet.I don't know what kind of vet you have but I have seen this happen in horses of his age several times... It is not the end of the world, honest.I have seen horses go on with successful showing careers, jumping and competing. Some tweaks are done, yes. But that is no different than any other horse athlete during their career. So...no offense to those here but Horseforum is huge in membership. With many of the members from the original HT gone their with their knowledge shared to others. Some incredible riders, professionals in many avenues of the horse industry from riders, trainers, care-givers to vet tech, vets, farriers...the list goes on and on... You will find some not so educated and younger posters but not nonsense allowed and policing is done by members who proudly display admin privileges. That forum seems to police itself like here but on a much larger scale...we are a infant to their adulthood status. I send to in the meantime and hang in their.... Where there is a will there is found a way!
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nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
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Post by nhg on Jul 3, 2016 4:15:04 GMT
I'm so sorry you're upset about this. My understanding is that they can keep it at a minimum these days and there are options. Not like when we had to put down our coming four year old filly who had a severe case. She was diagnosed at Moore & Co by their lameness guy and I saw the xrays. She was a mess, her navicular bones were all jagged and in terrible shape. Poor little gal. She was a doll and was going to be my horse. One of the hardest things I've ever had to do was make the decision to put her down. Not suggesting you'd have to do that, I just wish there had been an option for her. That was about 10 years ago.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 19:53:20 GMT
Just thought I would post a quick update as a point of interest. Benny go his shoes on and was sound for a while and back into light re-conditioning work. Unfortunately as soon as I upped his work slightly he got sore again. He was only doing maybe 40% of the work he was doing before this all started when he went lame. Going to call the vet out again because he has something going on in his hind end and I have a gut feelings its his stifles. To say that the wheels are coming off is a bit of an understatement at the moment and my heart is just breaking.
Not giving up quite yet, I understand that there is some sort of hermit navicular farrier specialist in a little town about an hour and a half from where I am. I plan to send him Benny's radiographs and see what he thinks. If he thinks he can help him, then I will have him hauled down there for a hands on evaluation. Past that, I don't have the extra cash to inject him on a regular basis, and any hope for any sort of athletic career for him is done.
I added a few of the images from his radiographs as a point of interest. I have about 12 images in total, but added the ones where you can see the degeneration more clearly.
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Post by horselady on Sept 2, 2016 1:34:50 GMT
So sorry you are going thru all this with Benny,, he is young and i do hope the hermit farrier could help.. are those shoes heart bar?? some farriers here in my area put the shoes on backwards to help lift the heel up and keep the toe closer to the ground... or use heart bar shoes.. i will check around and see what my friend the retired farrier says about it..
just stinks.. what you are going thru...
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Sept 3, 2016 1:11:41 GMT
What kind of shoes did he use? Padded or with a bar or something? What degree is the rotation? Oh, I'm just sick to me stomach. If you need anything get a hold of me on FB. We have a trailer, we can just be there with you if you need some support. Anything. There's a farrier near us who swears he can fix it but I think he's full of crap because he's not a magician but it might be worth it to check him out. His name is Tom Collins. I can track down his number if you'd like. He's a bit of an arrogant jerk but if he can fix it, who cares.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2016 17:21:22 GMT
I'm drawing a bit of a blank on what kind of shoes they are. They aren't wedges or a bar shoe, but they aren't 'normal' either. I will have to remember to ask tomorrow.
Initially my vet had recommended 3 degree wedges for him, but after consulting with my farrier they decided to go this route instead. I don't recall if my vet mentioned what the degree of rotation was, but I can always send an email and ask.
I sent his radiographs to the guy in Brooks, just waiting to hear back. I'm not expecting some magical miracle cure and I'm trying not to get my hopes up at all, but I would really love for him to be at least sound enough for some flat work. Sending him down to where Apollo is isn't really an option unless I can get this under control because he would be turned out onto a quarter section when the weather is nice and it just isn't feasible for my friend to walk out there and give him his previcox everyday, that and the quality of farriers in the area leaves a lot to be desired. If he is going to need specialized shoeing than he can't go. NHG - I so deeply appreciate your offer, and if I find myself in a position where I need to take you up on it I will let you know; Again, thank you so much.
I really appreciate all the support I've received from the members here. I am still really struggling and have done a lot of research and cried a lot of tears over this whole situation, but at this point crying isn't going to help anything or anyone.
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Post by horselover4life on Sept 6, 2016 17:50:44 GMT
Wide webs? Is that possibly the shoe?
OK, without getting slammed.... If you hit the wall with keeping him comfortably sound... I know there are some bad but also some good.... The name is terrible but... Partial nerving.... Now wait... He can feel his feet! He has diminished pain to no pain and that part is the good. One of the bad is it not last forever, nerves can come back in bundled balls and then another nerving session needs doing.. Sometimes the nerves regeneration never happens and the horse is no longer plagued by painful steps. Periodic x-rays need done to watch the progression of the bone issue happening. It sounds so terrible but I know of some horses who had it done, were sound riding and happy working...trust me, they could feel their feet and knew exactly where they were at all times. No way.no how would I ever be astride a horse with a complete nerving...nor would I even dare to write about it! The option for the horses I knew had it done was death, period. I hope you never get to that point Apollo, but you know enough to know you need to plan now for the what-if scenario chugging along. Something to investigate, learn about and look into and who does the procedure successfully in your area.... ....
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Post by carshon on Sept 6, 2016 18:08:54 GMT
I agree with the nerving. The show barn where my husband rides has a few horses that are nerved- when they are let out in the pasture or arena for "free" time you would never know they had anything wrong hoof wise. Just happy horses bucking and playing.
We have a horse with Navicular - we have dealt with it for years (4-5 yrs) now. She was sound without shoes last year and has not been riding sound this year for more than a mile or 2 ride. That being said - she is 18yrs old. We were recommended ground control shoes for her - we don't ride her much but she sure is spunky in the pasture.
Make sure you rule out other things.- our mare has a shoulder injury that was not treated and the vet and chiro think that may have started some of the Navicular changes -
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