nhg
Junior Member
Posts: 2,429
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Post by nhg on Nov 7, 2014 21:58:00 GMT
It's so hard to tell from pictures and different pads can make such a huge difference in how a saddle fits. Have you measured both gullets? It looks like the Circle Y fits better but I don't hate the fit of the brown one, either. I'm not a follower of the idea that a saddle must fit and not to use a pad to make it fit like some people are. Thicker pads can really make a saddle fit poorly.
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hugs
Junior Member
Posts: 2,647
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Post by hugs on Nov 18, 2014 0:41:33 GMT
The only thing I can say with any assurance is that you want to "re-fleece" the saddle, not re-flock it. Here is a question; I can see where the brown one pinches but what is it that keeps the saddle from sitting directly on the spine if it isn't the tree? Wouldn't the distance between the saddle and the spine be determined by the flexibility of the tree; whether the tree were wood or Fiberglas?
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Nov 18, 2014 14:09:21 GMT
Ok, yes, re-fleece!
I'm not sure I understand your question hug-s. The tree runs parallel to the spine and yes, keeps the saddle from sitting directly on the spine. And I would imagine if there was a bit more flexibility in one material over the other, than it would affect the distance between the saddle and the spine but I don't think wood or fiberglass has *that* much flexibility. I do believe however, that that is the main problem with tree-less saddles and larger riders. There is no tree there to spread the weight even over the horses back and I would assume may even allow that saddle to sit on the spine.
Did I just talk in a circle?
I think the problem with the brown saddle was that the angle of the bars was wrong.
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Post by horselover4life on Nov 18, 2014 15:21:45 GMT
For the reasons you just stated mm I will never buy a treeless saddle. I am not a "flyweight" and having a saddle that does not use a larger area to distribute weight & pressure to me is asking for a problem. When I "sit" a horse I sit deep, even out of riding shape as I am, I can drive a horse with my seat. That is a lot of pressure concentrated on a small area of nerves, muscle, spine....imo. I think about years ago....yes, old-school time again....
Do you realize there were a lot less horses with back issues then when saddles were saddles with trees, quality trees and full trees? There were some horses with back issues of course, but today think about how many owners are having chiro work done, needing shots or time off for a sore back... I agree some of it is "fad" and "fashionable" to do those things....but sadly to me it means you hurt your horse with ill -fitting tack or improper riding technique. I rode reiners...talk about the opportunity to sore a horse...and I/we did not ever... I/we went over them every day with a "fine-toothed" comb before anything else or any work started and again when finished. If a horse pulled up sore or acted sore they were immediately being looked at by a qualified vet. Chiro work existed then too, just wasn't known and spoken about like today.. We also had acupuncture, ultra-sound therapy think it was, and a few others. The horses I rode were world champion caliber, winning stock and could not afford to be out of commission...
I use to ride bareback a lot as a kid...if I did this for days in a row riding as I did for hours a day, if I ran my hand down the spine the horse sank out from my hand pressure...sore If I did the same amount of riding with my saddle on...there was no reaction but a look of "what you doing mom?" to me...not sore Even then I realized that it was OK to ride some bareback but not all the time.... That treeless saddle to me is near the same thing....only reason why it has a "tree" is to fasten and hold it on the horse the ones I have looked at....the "bars" have you ever really looked and pushed hard on those "bars"..where are the tips at?? No thank-you.
And I learned something because I would also call it re-flocking not fleecing a saddle. I guess you flock a English saddle and fleece a western one.... Thankyoufor enlightening me.
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hugs
Junior Member
Posts: 2,647
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Post by hugs on Nov 19, 2014 12:54:40 GMT
Thanks for giving a tree lesson to this forester Okay, the angle of the bars. Would you mind talking more about that? Its something I never thought of before. I've only thought of the width. I don't much about bar angle. I too have two saddles, one is full quarterhorse bars and the other semi (can't remember the actual spread).
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Nov 19, 2014 13:35:15 GMT
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Post by carshon on Nov 19, 2014 14:43:21 GMT
I have a prof choice pad designed to fill the hollow behind the shoulders. Like Lord Daxter I had slipping issues when I first purchased the pad - but at the advice of Prof Choice I stayed with the pad until the underside was a little dirty - and now no slipping. My point is that Mister looks like his shoulders are a little hollowed behind. I would consider shimming him behind is shoulders or asking around if someone has a saddle pad like this you can try.
I have recently tried a Reinsman built up pad - used on an older horse with basically no top line - but I found this pad to be too built up over the spine for my gelding. I would stick with the Circle Y and try some different padding for him. For me personally my issue was that my saddle would slip back way behind Steve's shoulder and then I would tilt downward. It was obvious even to those riding with me that the saddle had tilted down.
I took my gelding to a saddle fitter and the consensus was that he has HUGE mounded shoulders (think Halter bred) and a hollow behind them that the saddle wants to settle into.
Try some different pad options and see how they feel. Saddle placement is so individual to each horse - the saddle will "find" its place on Mister and it may look too far forward or back to us but if that is where the saddle wants to be - you cannnot force it to be anywhere else without causing discomfort to him.
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mistersmom
Junior Member
Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 3,749
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Post by mistersmom on Nov 19, 2014 14:55:24 GMT
Thanks Carshon. That was very informative about the dip behind the shoulders. It's been so long since I've ridden that I can't remember if it is Mister or my previous horse Cowboy where the saddle would slide back and dip down. Now I know why and if it is Mister, I can find a remedy.
I will try to take some pictures of him without the saddle to maybe get a look at the conformation of his back and which direction I should go with a new pad. Of course, getting the saddle re-fleeced will change things a bit too.
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