redzip
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Post by redzip on Oct 26, 2014 19:26:01 GMT
I know these are just hurdles, but honestly, Zippy is so anxious  He gets sooooooooooooooo 'jazzed' and anxious, excessively chopping the bit, misbehaving, spooking, mini bolting and scooting around, etc. that its is utterly EXHAUSTING under saddle. I can stay on, but everything becomes this huge anxious 'puddle' of Zippy's nerves, so its limited as to forward momentum. I've never owned a horse like this  I really could not imagine taking him out by himself some days,., which isnt what I intended when I bought him. And hes on a calming supplement too  But he can be reasonably quiet, and IF I go back in time, I can see that we have made progress. But it has been sooooooooooo slow,., bc we are dealing with umpteen 'foibles' and his stress. We are starting with a new trainer, and I'm leaning toward having her work with him for 30 days. To me, thats a pretty big investment in a horse that Ive already invested training in (basically this summer) and my own time and limited skill set. I'm sure that in some years from now, that behavior will be gone, but it seems like the 'issues' are never ending. I don't feel like its me, altho, I am certainly quite willing to continue to up my skills. I feel like its 'between the ears' and I just don't know whether its 'fixable',.., I'm feeling somewhat disheartened these days,.., altho I have found someone new to help us,.., Any thoughts, suggestions, or similar stories? Thanks |
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redzip
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Post by redzip on Oct 26, 2014 19:32:41 GMT
I also know that the idea is to redirect the anxious energy but I'm kind of out of ideas. I get that his instincts are flight, or fight, and that the nervousness is his way of saying hes feeling overwhelmed, or trapped, but come on,.., hes a broke horse. Just with LOTS of holes in the training,.., poor guy. |
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Post by 1fatmule on Oct 26, 2014 22:29:55 GMT
hi red, when we got our TWH mare Hannah she was broke to ride, but very anxious. she would not stand still, spun circles, backed up, side passed, anything but stand for any more than 5-10 second's. we were lucky that there is a working cattle ranch about 60 mile's from us, they offered training in 30, 60,or 90 day packages. their thought? she lacked confidence! they put her slowly to work just moving cattle around, 60 day's later you couldn't even believe the difference in her. i know that probably isn't an option for you, but is he bored?
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redzip
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Post by redzip on Oct 26, 2014 23:49:39 GMT
I know he is insecure,., and that is a big part of his issues.
I think this trainer will help him a lot, and I will speak with her about all of this on Tuesday.
He needs to be restarted and given his confidence from beginning to end.
I agree with your assessment also,.., but no, no cattle ranches here.
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hugs
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Post by hugs on Oct 27, 2014 1:16:52 GMT
I'm beginning to understand what my trainer Andrea means when she says that I've been making things way too complicated with Peaches. Horses aren't all that bright so we don't have to be that much smarter than they are. We need to keep it simple and clear and repeatable.
Speaking from experience, if we use the same exercise repeatedly in different circumstances with all the distractions we can over a period of time the horse (and person) will become habituated to the exercise so much that its no big deal. In other words, don't make the exercise, the training of the skill, complicated, make it as simple as possible so that you care totally confident and clear in what you are asking your horse to do. It'll make it easier for them to learn it and in that learning, by mixing up the surroundings and circumstances you will hone the skill and build confidence. But if you keep changing the lesson, the skill you want them to learn, then their mind is doubly taxed by learning the skill which is hard and gets frustrating and makes the mind want to wander plus the distractions of the surroundings and so it'll take even longer.
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Post by lorddaxter on Oct 27, 2014 12:39:58 GMT
Reading your post was kinda like déjà vu for me. hope you get things sorted with him, I just had enough with Isis and it frustrated me and took up too much of my time, my other two were neglected so I gave him away as you know, I am enjoying having time to spend with Dax and Ira and no constantly trying to work Isis out!
I agree the Ranch experience would be good, I was considering sending Isis to the feedlot if he didn't go by November, I think that would have done a whole lot of good, some horses just have that temperament where they need intense constant hard work, Isis was desensitized to death but it made no difference.
I know you love him, I loved Isis but decided it would be best for us to part ways, I'm not saying you should or will do that but just do what is best for you and zippy, I truly hope you succeed where I failed, I wish there was a feedlot or ranch closer and affordable to you, training is so expensive though and it frustrates me that they don't even ride half as much a they promise and you never find out till after, sometimes months or years after:(
As someone here told me, horses are to be enjoyed and safety is important especially as we get older, with him I had neither really
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redzip
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Post by redzip on Oct 27, 2014 13:03:55 GMT
Reading your post was kinda like déjà vu for me. hope you get things sorted with him, I just had enough with Isis and it frustrated me and took up too much of my time, my other two were neglected so I gave him away as you know, I am enjoying having time to spend with Dax and Ira and no constantly trying to work Isis out! I agree the Ranch experience would be good, I was considering sending Isis to the feedlot if he didn't go by November, I think that would have done a whole lot of good, some horses just have that temperament where they need intense constant hard work, Isis was desensitized to death but it made no difference. I know you love him, I loved Isis but decided it would be best for us to part ways, I'm not saying you should or will do that but just do what is best for you and Red, I truly hope you succeed where I failed, I wish there was a feedlot or ranch closer and affordable to you, training is so expensive though and it frustrates me that they don't even ride half as much a they promise and you never find out till after, sometimes months or years after:( As someone here told me, horses are to be enjoyed and safety is important especially as we get older, with him I had neither really ^^Yep, yep, to all of the above^^ I honestly think Zippy has the potential to leave a lot of his 'drama' behind him,.. but he is a long way from being the SAFE QUIET trailhorse I really wanted. He is truly a horse that needs regular and constant riding. I have a lot to discuss with this new trainer,., and the $$ spent with her, are fine, just not what I anticipated. I know that Zippy is just fearful, and tries so hard to be good,.., just lots of fear and uncertainty,., ie. confidence. I have no other horses to worry about, and feel that Zippy deserves a real chance to improve b4 I consider anything else,., I would worry that he would just go on to be misunderstood elsewhere So,., the journey continues,.., |
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nhg
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Post by nhg on Oct 27, 2014 14:24:36 GMT
I've had similar horses but because of the behaviour I don't bond with them so I rehome them of they can't get themselves sorted out. I'm too old to try to deal much with that crap and I will not put myself in a position where I increase the odds of having a fall. When I was younger I preferred horses that had issues but not now. I've had several concussions and one more might make me punch drunk as they get worse every time. I already have balance issues from my last head injury while riding almost fifteen years ago so I'm done taking chances. I admire that you want to give him a chance, though. I had an appy mare years ago that was great under saddle but spooky of everything on the ground. I spent a lot of time clicker training her and it helped but not enough. If I didn't do it every day she'd go back to how she was. But when we worked on it I could see the light come on in her head and she'd actually try to find things to touch and feel brave about. But I'm not sure how that would equate to in the saddle. I think the reason why my horse is so good about everything is because he was my daughter's horse and she did all kinds of crazy stuff around him so he had to suck it up and deal with it. We also never pussy foot around our horses. If we know or think something might scare them we just do it and let them deal with it. There's no tentative trying to get them used to it because it makes them think something is up and they should be concerned. If they don't like the sound of the leather of the stirrup smacking we just go ahead and do it at random times until they ignore it. Actually, I just thought of a Stacey Westfall training trick. She spends time desensitizing the horse on the ground and then does it while the horse is being led. Apparently in their minds there's a big difference between getting used to something while standing and while moving. She'll walk backwards while leading the horse- which they don't like- and will do things like swing things around it's head or tap it with things, typical desensitizing stuff. Doing things rhythmically calms them down, too. |
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redzip
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Post by redzip on Oct 27, 2014 17:16:51 GMT
Well, TODAY, he was PERFECT The past 2 days I rode, Super WINDY. I will definitely give Zippy multiple chances, he can be wonderful, and he can be BAD. But, deep down, I know its fear, and the more I do with him, the better he will get. He is a sweet soul, and I would worry too much to sell him to someone else. Hopefully, this trainer will stick around longer and we can make progress before it gets too cold and nasty. TODAY WAS A GOOD DAY, and thats the best I can ask for  Love my Zippy too  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2014 19:54:44 GMT
Glad to hear you and Zippy had a great day!
I owned a warmblood mare who had suffered a lot of abuse once who was sort of like that. I often described riding her was like walking through a mine field; sometimes you made it just fine, and other time you had a blow up. It took a ton of work and wet saddle blankets, but she did eventually get past it.
As hard as it is, try not to anticipate the nervousness from him. Make a mental checklist to ensure you are not accidently getting tense as well. Deep controlled breaths, hokey pokey (safely) if you have to. It helped me a lot.
The other thing that helped was I changed my mindset about it. Instead of expecting (preparing) for her to misbehave, I expected her to behave. I found after that I rode more confidently, she went much better, and the spooking and silliness was largely eliminated.
Hope to hear that things continue to go well!
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redzip
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Post by redzip on Oct 29, 2014 0:13:14 GMT
Glad to hear you and Zippy had a great day! I owned a warmblood mare who had suffered a lot of abuse once who was sort of like that. I often described riding her was like walking through a mine field; sometimes you made it just fine, and other time you had a blow up. It took a ton of work and wet saddle blankets, but she did eventually get past it. As hard as it is, try not to anticipate the nervousness from him. Make a mental checklist to ensure you are not accidently getting tense as well. Deep controlled breaths, hokey pokey (safely) if you have to. It helped me a lot. The other thing that helped was I changed my mindset about it. Instead of expecting (preparing) for her to misbehave, I expected her to behave. I found after that I rode more confidently, she went much better, and the spooking and silliness was largely eliminated. Hope to hear that things continue to go well! ^^AGREE Apollo^^ If I focus on whats ahead, or anything BUT his goofiness, I find his attention can be redirected as well. I did decide today to do 30 days with the new trainer,., on my farm. My neighbor is quite pleased, and it certainly can not hurt the Zipster. So, hoping that the daily ridings will result in a calmer, more focused horse. I've never put a horse in training, but I've never had such a jumpy horse either. Will continue to post as we progress thru the training! Thanks for all input, and ideas! |
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hugs
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Post by hugs on Oct 29, 2014 2:06:35 GMT
Oh man you know you aren't alone in wanting your horse to the be the responsible one.
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redzip
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Post by redzip on Oct 30, 2014 21:34:00 GMT
LOL, used Zippy's 'work evasion' antics against him today  He *thinks* if he misbehaves over by the fence by the ditch, that I'll give up (and it is exhausting),.., BUT, he thought he'd start running sideways, backing, chomping the bit, spinning, all the usual BS in order to not do as I wanted,.., Next thing the ole Zipster knew, I was MAKING HIM sidepass, spin, and back, over and over again. He was backing and spinning and sidepassing so much that suddenly,., RESTING by the fence became a real treat  Making the right thing easy and the wrong that difficult,.,  |
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Post by 1fatmule on Oct 30, 2014 22:19:14 GMT
looks to me like you had a major break through today, YESSSS  smart horse |
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redzip
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Post by redzip on Oct 30, 2014 23:00:35 GMT
looks to me like you had a major break through today, YESSSS smart horse LOL, it dawned on me that Red pulled that crap with me once about passing some pigs. Spinning, backing, blah, blah,.., next he knew, he was backing by those pigs too!! DANG HORSES! 757724 |
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hugs
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Post by hugs on Oct 31, 2014 2:32:50 GMT
Having one's craw full is the mother of invention.
Sounds like a wonderful breakthrough, CONGRATULATIONS!
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Post by spirithawk06 on Nov 2, 2014 15:20:59 GMT
My steady eddie in the saddle gelding has been acting anxious too. He is not a confident horse on the ground, but saddle him up and it's like he's a different horse. But lately, I've been having the anxiety trouble too. I'm with nhg, can't afford another fall, not with my back and my knee. I was hoping to see some tips on stuff to do with him. As far as ground work, he's come a long way from spooking at small stuff. It was crazy the difference between him in the saddle and him on the ground. I suspect he has holes in his training too and we've had that trespasser trouble in the past, so he's not very confident anymore. Even Apollo (my bomb proof on the ground guy) was getting twitchy. Luckily, he's a quick fix with a couple of lunging and desensitizing lessons. Star on the other hand...he needs more than just a quick session.
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Post by Shelly on Nov 5, 2014 23:10:05 GMT
How is mister Zippy in the ring? or is his shyness there?
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redzip
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Post by redzip on Nov 6, 2014 13:11:15 GMT
How is mister Zippy in the ring? or is his shyness there? My trainer and I have talked about this,., she thinks the spookiness is a 'work evasion' on his part. I do also,., probably one of his old 'tricks' that got him out of more work with former owners. To answer your question, its often the same behavior, ring work or trail riding. When trail riding with other horses, he can work thru his anxiety and spookiness, while moving his feet, so he's less apt to bolt and run. In the ring, its a shananigan that allows him to evade working. He behaves this way in a particular corner in the pasture, but elsewhere, he's pretty good. He does it along one side of my smaller arena also, bc my neighbor is often building, using tools in his garage on the other side of the hedge. Zippy can't see him, only hears him, so he acts stupid about that end of the arena. We're hoping that it kind of just 'goes away' now that hes in daily training, and being ridden everyday. Fingers crossed that Zippy has a break thru and gets his mind right with this trainer. |
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hugs
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Post by hugs on Nov 7, 2014 3:02:48 GMT
It can be difficult to interpret if a horse is spooking or acting out. Then again sometimes a horse can go from okay to scared and back again in such a short time that its really tough. Either way, firm persistence consistently than harsh responses sporadically works much better.
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smart horse 
